new cleaning machine

[FISH_MAN]

I think on Monday I may order this VPI 17F one what do you guys think its $1300.00 from music direct is this the "sweet spot" as far as cleaning machines go? is their any where else that has it cheaper?

Is this thing a rip off or is it really worth the extra coin compared to the cheaper models?

 

[Bernard]

Why not get the (cheaper) 16.5 and save the extra towards a new cartridge ?

 

[tonepub]

Good call on the record cleaner....

Here's a tip for the VPI:

When you are buying it, get two extra pickup tubes.
http://www.musicdirect.com/product/74560

One for really dirty records and one spare in case you break one!

Keep that spare one in a Ziplock bag and use it when you come home with
a lot of really dirty records. Save the one on the machine (they pop right off) for the new vinyl you buy.

Great addition to your system. You should be pretty surprised at how much better your records will sound....

 

[TrumpetDoug]

Are these machines rally worth the extra amount of $$$$ over the Nitty Gritty products. I have had a Nitty for over 25 years and it still works great.

Doug - out

 

[gregadd]

Hot ticket

The VPI is a hot ticket. Small discounts. The used ones go fast for close to the new price.
Try http://www.elusive disc.com they usually offer a package deal rather than discount. They will throw in a variety of brushes, fluid, tubes, rice paper liners, sleeves and if you do not have it the audioquest carbon fiber brush.

For the truly anal retentive try the Loricraft RCM. At $2700 it uses a thread between the record and cleaning head to achieve greater suction.
enjoy.
Gregadd
:afro:

 

[gregadd]

Here she is.

 

[User211]

I liked this one - the cheapest ClearAudio Smart Matrix - a fair amount cheaper than the VPI you quote. Being a ClearAudio, it looks good, too. Manual application of fluid keeps the price low.

No idea of the relative effectiveness of various cleaners - never seen a review. Jeff? Hint, hint.

Serious Keith Monks below it, which works like the Lorricraft.

Is it worth it yet? How much vinyl do you have? Just a thought.

 

[twich54]

Why not get the (cheaper) 16.5 and save the extra towards a new cartridge ?

I agree with Bernard on this one as well. the 16.5 requires manual application of fluid (no big deal), so with the $7-800 svings there's a nice cartridge or plenty of new vinyl !

FWIW, I am more than pleased with my 16.5. I see no need to upgrade or change untill the day it croaks !

 

[MiTT]

Yeah, I'm with Dave and Bernard. I think the 16.5 is a great machine, especially for the money. When I worked in the record store we had a 16.5 and a Nitty Gritty, and everyone preferred the VPI 16.5. The 17 and Typhoon are also great machines, but they are really made more for the person who has a HUGE record collection, or for retailers who are spending their time cleaning records all day long. The 16.5 uses the exact same brush and vacuum. If you only clean 4-5 records a day, it's a more than suffucient machine.

And yes, they are indespencible if you want to take the very best care of your records. I also agree with Jeff, get two vacuum tubes - one for new records, one for used. If you buy any used records at all I can't imagine being without one.

 

[gregadd]

Yeah but...

the 17 is so pretty. It knows how much fluid to put on the record. Something that for me varied (directly proportional to the amount alcohol I had consumed)from record to record. And you don't want to get the record label wet.
If you got the extra $ go and ahead and treat yourself to a 17.
As for multiple tubes. You can and should clean that little Velcro pad periodically with a stiff bristle tooth brush. Be gentle. You don't want to scrape the Velcro pad off the tube.

Enjoy.
Gregadd:afro:

 

[FOUNTAIN]

Are these machines rally worth the extra amount of $$$$ over the Nitty Gritty products. I have had a Nitty for over 25 years and it still works great.

Doug - out

Hey Doug,

I had a nitty gritty 1.0 that I just sold to a friend who needed some type of cleaning machine since he is just getting into vinyl. After that I purchased the VPI 16.5 because it is easier to use and allows for scrubbing while the platter rotates. The brush that comes with the VPI is better to me than the one that came with the NG, of course these can be bought seperately and used with your NG. One area in which I did not like about the NG design is the changing of the felt pads when they were dirty. The tubes that you use with the 16.5 are much easier to change out and can be designated for new vinyl and old vinyl. After using the VPI over the past few days some of the vinyl that I thought were cleaned was actually still somewhat dirty in the grooves. It was apparent when listening that the noise floor dropped and ticks and pops were reduced. I attribute this to the ease of scrubbing a record on the solid platform that VPI provides. This allowed me to apply a more even pressure with their cleaning brush; all I had to do was hold the brush with one hand as the platter rotated and allow the bristles to clean the grooves. If the vinyl was really dirty then I could add a little scrubbing action as it rotated and press a little harder. The only down side is when you flip the record over and place it on the cork platter then your clean side is now on the same cork that just had a dirty record on it. I haven't figured out how to overcome this yet, but maybe some type of rubber mat will help that can be cleaned every so often. Maybe you have a better system for cleaning your records with the NG than I did and may not notice a difference, but the 16.5 helped me to be more consistent and thorough.

Glen

 

[FOUNTAIN]

I think on Monday I may order this VPI 17F one what do you guys think its $1300.00 from music direct is this the "sweet spot" as far as cleaning machines go? is their any where else that has it cheaper?

Is this thing a rip off or is it really worth the extra coin compared to the cheaper models?

I believe you will be pleasantly surprised at how your lp's will sound after they have been cleaned. Even new vinyl will play better sometimes due to junk left in the grooves after pressing. Of course all you would need is the 16.5, but the automation of the 17f is really nice. If I could have afforded that model I probably would have done so. As for it being better over the lesser expensive model, it does not appear to be, but someone who has owned both may chime in and set the record staight. You may still have to scrub yourself though when cleaning dirty vinyl since the automatic version may not be as thourough as you may be. Other than that I would definitely get some type of vaccum cleaning device if you can do so. You will not regret it.

 

[TrumpetDoug]

Glen and all,

I think over the years I have modified how I use my Nitty Gritty and I think it works great. The process I use would be a bit cumbersome to describe in words, and would be better to see in person. I know thats not always possible (obviously) but I do believe it gets the job done to a very high standard.

I am hearing in this thread and elsewhere that there are better products than the Nitty Gritty. I imagine when my machine takes on its final slab I will be on the hunt, but just can't justify spending the $$$ now. Thanks for the input Glen.

Doug - out

 

[FISH_MAN]

so with the 16.5 you have to apply liquid and brush manually ?? where the 17f does it all for you correct.

 

[gregadd]

Yes. In any even you may want to pre-scrub with either machine.
Disclaimer-never owned the 17 but used it at dealer.

 

[tonepub]

I liked this one - the cheapest ClearAudio Smart Matrix - a fair amount cheaper than the VPI you quote. Being a ClearAudio, it looks good, too. Manual application of fluid keeps the price low.

No idea of the relative effectiveness of various cleaners - never seen a review. Jeff? Hint, hint.

Serious Keith Monks below it, which works like the Lorricraft.

Is it worth it yet? How much vinyl do you have? Just a thought.

We did review the Smart Matrix a while back and I bought the review sample. I love it. Not a terribly big amount of diff between it and the VPI 17.5, except the Clear demands you apply the fluid manually.

The loricraft is excellent, but they are not in the habit of submitting them for review. And seeing I already have a good RCM, I didn't see the point of buying one just to do a review. They are fantastic though.

I have also owned Nitty Gritty's over the years with good luck. Again, a little more manual than the VPI 16.5, 17.5 or the Clear. But will do the job just fine.

I really enjoy the clear, because I have a lot of budget records and I like the ability to clean in both directions. (Which the 17.5 does as well). I've even been thinking about grabbing a second RCM to use to just run medical grade water as a second cleaning operation after the regular clean....

As for doing an article about the different cleaning solutions, there's so much out there, it's just another argument waiting to happen. My favorites are Todd the Vinyl Junkie's Vinyl Zyme which is an enzyme based cleaner. If you let this stuff sit for a few minutes on a really dirty, icky record it works well.

With clean or new records, I like Record Research lab cleaner and am anxious to try MoFi's cleaner (which I've heard is enzyme based as well)

There are really probably 10 good ones out there. The people I know that are super meticulous about cleaning have all told me the key is to do that 2nd wash/vac operation with pure water to get the last bit of fluid residue out of the grooves, so that's my next step.

As always, we'll keep you posted!

 

[User211]

Good post.

I see it as a grey area in the sense that it is hard to work out what the best solution really is. You'd have to subject identical new records to identical maltreatment, then clean on different machines with the same fluids etc. Not an easy or practical thing to do well.

Sometimes gut feelings and personal word of mouth recommendations are the only way... And reviews too, I guess

 

[Pcar928fan]

These things are AWESOME! I have a VPI 16.5 I guess...or a model that looks just like the 17 anyway. Don't use it that much because I don't spin a lot of vinyl, but I love it when it is time to clean a record!

 

[MiTT]

These things are AWESOME! I have a VPI 16.5 I guess...or a model that looks just like the 17 anyway. Don't use it that much because I don't spin a lot of vinyl, but I love it when it is time to clean a record!

James, you might actually have an older 17. The 16.5 is smaller and looks like this...

 

[FISH_MAN]

I am so confused I think the 16.5 would be good enough for me but I may feel that feeling that I should have bought the more expensive one later. If you all could see my record collection you would probably laugh but I have just got started I do like the used records and really need to get them clean. does that 16.5 go in reverse? is it better to put the liquids on by hand as you can experiment with different ones much easier? say one for more aggressive applications and one for new records?