New Balanced Force 210 and 212 subs!

[sleepysurf]

Just saw this blurb on Audioholics announcing ML's Balanced Force 210 and 212 subs, replacing the Depth and Descent models... http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/martinlogan-balancedforce-210-and-212

I really like the concept of the USB Flash drive to input customized low pass filter and EQ settings to match with your respective ML speaker. These new subs will also be compatible with the forthcoming Perfect Bass Kit (which I presume measures speaker/room frequency response). Will be interesting to see how they spec out, since they each use only two vs. three drivers.

 

[Peter Soderberg]

as is typical of show reports, not 100% accurate, but damn close. to the question of measuerments, the bigger drives, even reduced in number, means greater extension for more output versus the older ones. 2 years of struggle on getting better than Depth/Descents finally almost done. tough to replace an iconic desing, but look for roughly 6 db of output wiht similar good measurements on other fronts vs, the older ones.

 

[amey01]

Looks interesting...

 

[peacefulcargo]

Thanks for posting

 

[sleepysurf]

Thanks Peter! Sounds like one 212 (?? two 210's) could be exactly what I'm looking for to pair with my Summits! Are you able to share specs on cabinet size?

 

[Brad225]

I would suggest 2 - 210's. They will probably integrate in your room better since it is a family room and the ideal placement is not always where they have options to be placed. With that in mind adjusting them to mate with left and right Summits would be much smoother.

 

[sleepysurf]

Yes, Brad, but space is TIGHT, hence my asking Peter for specs on their footprint size. I'm having channel(s) cut in my slab and laying conduit under the wood floor for subwoofer cable(s), thus need to decide ASAP re placement. Even if not ideal location, the Perfect Bass Kit might be my best hope to smooth out the response, especially if I can only accommodate ONE sub.

 

[T Diddy]

Well my brother turned me on to MLs...took only a few months and I need a new house! Payback is a Biotch! He was close to pulling the trigger on the Depth...I think I have changed his mind with the help of this link....thanks...but his girlie is gonna hate me!

 

[Peter Soderberg]

I do not have footprint numbers on the 210 but it is about as wide as a depth at its widest, a bit taller, heavier (i was tired Friday night on packing so can only guess on that). the general shape is rectangular with a narrower front tapering back to a bit wider rear. In rethinking, it will be wider than a depth(mid point, which is the widest) at the back end but by only a inch or so. PBK has some differences that are good for low frequencies vs. Audessey so that will help less than ideal locals. do remember EQ is only so powerful and can't make up for horrible placements.
Do remeber, these aren't scheduled till mid summer. physical shape is done so no surprises will be coming but some things are in the fine tuning stages.

 

[-justin-]

Watch Peter in action at CES talk about the subs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CZlUuNJJSo&feature=player_embedded

These are still 7-9 months out, in fact the 3 we took (one on display with black ash top and two playing with walnut tops on the CLX demo) to the show were the first hand built prototypes, so there will most likely be tweaks to specs / features / final fit & finish in the coming months.

~J

 

[JonFo]

Nice subs, congrats to ML.

I definitely like subs with opposing drivers, as that arrangement really does kill unwanted vibrations from the box. My IB sub (Quad-balanced? / QuadraForce?) with four drivers is inert even when pumping out huge volume.

 

[ridom]

Hi
They look somewhat similar to the B&W DB1 I have, with opposite drivers, connections for both HT and stereo; room correction and software managed by computer. The difference is that the DB1 stores only B&W speaker models in its database, so you have to do the fine tuning for stereo by your own (in HT you can always use the tools of your prepro). I am running this sub with a pair of CLX with great results.

 

[Boris]

Any updates on these subwoofers? I'm considering the Depth i but will wait if these are only a few months out. One post said 7-9 months and one mid-summer so I am a bit confused on when they will arrive.

 

[SubSolar]

Talked to an ML sales guy and he said November, but who knows how accurate that is.

 

[Northy]

Any updates on these subwoofers? I'm considering the Depth i but will wait if these are only a few months out. One post said 7-9 months and one mid-summer so I am a bit confused on when they will arrive.

With this timeline in mind, the Depth and Descent will have to be cleared from merchants' inventories. You may get some awsome deals on either unit. If you are not too crazy about the perfect bass kit or the extra 6db, I suggest you go with these 3-driver units for a more accurate sub and better standing wave cancellation.

 

[RUR]

....I suggest you go with these 3-driver units for a more accurate sub and better standing wave cancellation.

Assuming "standing waves" = room modes, I can't see that the change from three-sided to dual-opposed will have any effect, positive or negative. We can make no comparison re: "accuracy" until we've seen measurements, but the PBK included with the new subs should improve accuracy in most setups.

 

[Boris]

I'm pretty open with placement and do enjoy the look of the Depth i more than the new subs... also if one has XT32 will PBK make any difference?

Only thing I'm concerned about is the built-in EQ and extra output

 

[JonFo]

^^^ If you only are going to have one sub, and already have XT32, probably not much advantage to using yet another EQ system in line. So any current model will be fine.

Now, if you are going to use three or four subs, then being able to individually tune them to their locations using PBK, then later running XT32 on top of all four running concurrently will yield optimal results.

As for extra output, you can get that as well as better room integration by using two (or more) subs.

 

[Northy]

Assuming "standing waves" = room modes, I can't see that the change from three-sided to dual-opposed will have any effect, positive or negative. We can make no comparison re: "accuracy" until we've seen measurements, but the PBK included with the new subs should improve accuracy in most setups.

I meant the internal standing waves within the cabinet. Please read the ML brochure which is more eloquent than what I can describe here.

 

[Peter Soderberg]

Fear not on the 210/211 and your concern on internal standing waves. the same attention to resonance control of the cabinet and interaction of drives have been given to this design versus the Depth/Descent. we have been at work for 2 years on them and are finally happy with the results. Even thought the depth/descent can't be considered "broken" we have worked hard on what is truly going to be an upgrade. As to close outs on the old, we build mostly to order with minimal backstock although we will see what happens as the new ones come in line late in the summber for September release. of course, lots of things have to happen before that release but it is coming. Jonfo has a good point above which is why we will be selling the PBK as an $99 option. yes, you can use the software on all subs before doing an overall in the room. i will be at the Bay Area show, Newport show with later prototypes if you are all curious. New York was fantastic.