Why would you exclude speakers from the over-rated group? Should I spend 5K on a CD player, pre and amp and hook them up to 15K speakers? That should definitely let me hear all the flaws in the upstream gear!
Most overrated audio component you ever heard/seen/witnessed?
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Why would you exclude speakers from the over-rated group? Should I spend 5K on a CD player, pre and amp and hook them up to 15K speakers? That should definitely let me hear all the flaws in the upstream gear!
eknuds01
Well-known member
I didn't mean to exclude all speakers. I used the ML Summit price point as the cap since many ML Summit owners seem to be very happy with their purchase. I am sure there are tons of speakers in the 10+k range that don't warrant the high price tag.
There are, of course, many overrated speakers well under 10k ::COUGH, COUGH:: Definitive Technology ::COUGH COUGH::
eknuds01
Well-known member
There are a few decent magazines out there and I admit that I like seeing the very pricey gear reviewed and rated. It's cool. However, in my opinion, most of the mags seem to emphasize reviewing the expensive stuff, yet it's rather difficult to find nice articles about pre-amps for less than 1k, or CD players that are good buys, etc. I know it would be boring if every article was about 'budget' hi-end audio gear (akin to reviewing accords and civics 24/7).
Yes, there are some companies that churn out expensive gear (Audio Research comes to mind) that always seems worth it. But if you talk to Dave, he'll regale you with stories about his current pre-amp vs the Ref 3 (or the next model up, can't remember).
Erik
Joey_V
Well-known member
Talking to Dave and having him regale me with stories is always a good way to spend some down time. Speaking of which, I need to call the guy sometime soon... I know he called me sometime ago, but I was wrapped up in work (now I'm wrapped up in studies). Sucks, but que sera sera... as is life.
rhom
Well-known member
One more item that I considered overrated, ProAc Tablette speakers.
I purchased a new pair based on the TAS raves when I was on a business trip to England in the early 80s. Small enough to bring back as carry-on luggage (in those days). They were inexpensive in England at the time.
Tried breaking these in for the better part of a year using tubed gear (ARC SP-6B D-76a pre/power amps) and SS (Threshold). No matter what I tried, the sound was thin and very significantly tilted toward the treble end of the spectrum. Even when used with a very good subwoofer, could not achieve a satisfactory tonal balance. Yes, they imaged well. Had two audiophile buddies have pretty much the same experience with Tablettes that they purchased here in the USA.
Thought that I could recover my investment by using them as front speakers in an early HT system years ago. Too fatiguing to listen to for a whole movie though, so I gave them to a starving college student relative.
I purchased a new pair based on the TAS raves when I was on a business trip to England in the early 80s. Small enough to bring back as carry-on luggage (in those days). They were inexpensive in England at the time.
Tried breaking these in for the better part of a year using tubed gear (ARC SP-6B D-76a pre/power amps) and SS (Threshold). No matter what I tried, the sound was thin and very significantly tilted toward the treble end of the spectrum. Even when used with a very good subwoofer, could not achieve a satisfactory tonal balance. Yes, they imaged well. Had two audiophile buddies have pretty much the same experience with Tablettes that they purchased here in the USA.
Thought that I could recover my investment by using them as front speakers in an early HT system years ago. Too fatiguing to listen to for a whole movie though, so I gave them to a starving college student relative.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Wilson Audio
The way they sound and the way they look. How many versions of the glossy trash can one produce with a requisite price hike for each version?
I've heard several Grand Slam's and Watt / Puppies at shows and various personal systems. I found them to sound mediocre at best.
Then there are the dealers. You ain't s**t unless you own Wilson Audio Speakers, the sales person will tell you with this superior, I know what I'm talking about grin on his face. Arrogance and an attitude beyond comprehension.
I love the recent ads in TAS about their aluminum ports and how they spent all these hours evaluating the sound of aluminum versus other competitors material. GAG!
For me, Wilson Audio, along with their marketing, is the high end audio version of Paul Harvey and Bose.
The one thing I do admire David Wilson for was the exquisite chamber music CD's he produced when he first came onto the high end scene. From there, it was all downhill albiet very profitable. Oh well.
GG
The way they sound and the way they look. How many versions of the glossy trash can one produce with a requisite price hike for each version?
I've heard several Grand Slam's and Watt / Puppies at shows and various personal systems. I found them to sound mediocre at best.
Then there are the dealers. You ain't s**t unless you own Wilson Audio Speakers, the sales person will tell you with this superior, I know what I'm talking about grin on his face. Arrogance and an attitude beyond comprehension.
I love the recent ads in TAS about their aluminum ports and how they spent all these hours evaluating the sound of aluminum versus other competitors material. GAG!
For me, Wilson Audio, along with their marketing, is the high end audio version of Paul Harvey and Bose.
The one thing I do admire David Wilson for was the exquisite chamber music CD's he produced when he first came onto the high end scene. From there, it was all downhill albiet very profitable. Oh well.
GG
Joey_V
Well-known member
Like I said earlier, Axiom M22 is my #1 disapointment of all time. I remember when I got them a while back, it was the year before I got into medical school and I just did good on my MCATs. I decided to give myself a present and I sold my Yamaha NS8390 and NS7390 cheapo floorstanders to my dorm neighbor.
I bought the Axiom M22 and took delivery. I read all the reviews online and participated on the Axiom forum.... it was great! Then it arrived. I was so excited that I was late to work that day. I played with the speakers and thought they sounded ok, but I was expecting a revelation! It's ok.... after several months, I got used to them and they started to burn in (I think). Sounded pretty good... I was still active on their forum.
Then that summer prior to med school, I decided I wanted to write a review about these Axiom M22. I decided that in order for me to write a review, I needed to compare them A/B with other speakers. I took my speakers to the dealer and compared them to Paradigm Reference 20, Polk LSi9/7, Boston Acoustics, BW 705.... the typical speakers that Axiom is "renowned" to be better than and speakers that all the forum members would "diss" when compared to the Axioms.
Well, the first note that was played at the store, I realized that I got gypped! It was an embarassment... the dealer was like, "What are these?" Not impressed, even entry level Polks surprisingly sounded better than these touted "neutral, reference-like, high-value speakers"!
I quickly wrote a not-so-favorable review and posted it on the Axiom forum....and I pretty much got booted out of that forum.
I sold them and moved onto Polk, then Sonus Faber, then Onix, then Martin Logan.
I bought the Axiom M22 and took delivery. I read all the reviews online and participated on the Axiom forum.... it was great! Then it arrived. I was so excited that I was late to work that day. I played with the speakers and thought they sounded ok, but I was expecting a revelation! It's ok.... after several months, I got used to them and they started to burn in (I think). Sounded pretty good... I was still active on their forum.
Then that summer prior to med school, I decided I wanted to write a review about these Axiom M22. I decided that in order for me to write a review, I needed to compare them A/B with other speakers. I took my speakers to the dealer and compared them to Paradigm Reference 20, Polk LSi9/7, Boston Acoustics, BW 705.... the typical speakers that Axiom is "renowned" to be better than and speakers that all the forum members would "diss" when compared to the Axioms.
Well, the first note that was played at the store, I realized that I got gypped! It was an embarassment... the dealer was like, "What are these?" Not impressed, even entry level Polks surprisingly sounded better than these touted "neutral, reference-like, high-value speakers"!
I quickly wrote a not-so-favorable review and posted it on the Axiom forum....and I pretty much got booted out of that forum.
I sold them and moved onto Polk, then Sonus Faber, then Onix, then Martin Logan.
SundayNiagara
Well-known member
The Koetsu's have always been gorgeous sounding.
SundayNiagara
Well-known member
"Every Quad ESL I've heard."
You've never heard a properly setup/driven pair of Quads.
You've never heard a properly setup/driven pair of Quads.
SundayNiagara
Well-known member
Had to be a very poor setup AND the fact that ARC amp/s was/were not used to drive the tweeter/midrange panels
I agree. When we sold the ESL63 I went through five to seven different amps before I found one that made them sing. Interestingly, it wasn't a CJ or an ARC amp but a PS Audio IIC+ that did the trick. To this day I've not heard a better amp with that speaker. A truly magical pairing that couldn't be predicted but took much in the way of trial and error.
kwr
Well-known member
The biggest audio disappointment I have experienced was the Wilson Audio Maxx driven with Krell 350c monoblocs from a Krell preamp and Meridian GO8 all connected with top of the line Transparent.
My expectations were high but the sound was not anything to grab your attention
I am always mindful of the variety of opinion out there. There are plenty of people who are not excited by Quads which to my ears are one of the world's great speakers.
Kevin
My expectations were high but the sound was not anything to grab your attention
I am always mindful of the variety of opinion out there. There are plenty of people who are not excited by Quads which to my ears are one of the world's great speakers.
Kevin
Joey_V
Well-known member
OK, I've resisted long enough posting on this one, so here goes:
Most overrated, pretty much most 'high-end' cables, and agree with Tim, that MIT is one of the worst offenders. Basically they are bendable tone controls
On the speaker front, agree with Gordon that Wilson is waaay overrated. Mind you, I've heard some very nice Wilson setups, but then, I've heard some DIY speaker based systems that sounded better. So definitely overpriced as well.
Most overrated, pretty much most 'high-end' cables, and agree with Tim, that MIT is one of the worst offenders. Basically they are bendable tone controls
On the speaker front, agree with Gordon that Wilson is waaay overrated. Mind you, I've heard some very nice Wilson setups, but then, I've heard some DIY speaker based systems that sounded better. So definitely overpriced as well.
tonepub
Senior Member
It is nearly impossible to judge a component by what you hear in a showroom or at a hifi show.
It's all about room, setup and system synergy.
Precious little gear has ever blown me away at a dealer or at a show,
because they can't take the time and effort to set it up perfectly. I would
think as ML owners you guys would appreciate that.
Take your speakers in your room and move em a foot away from where
your optimal setup is. Magic is gone, huh? Now imagine that's your
exposure to ML (or insert other product here).
That was my first experience with ML. Went to my dealer, listened to the speakers and really thought they were no big deal, but because I loved electrostatic speakers I took them home for the weekend and was really excited....
What I've seen after four years of spending about 10 hours a day reviewing gear in a closed environment is that every piece of gear has a distinct flavor or personality to the sound, which is usually reflected by the musical and sound taste of the designer. Most people have the same built in bias.
We all like ML speakers for that flavor of sound. The person who likes the sound of a Wilson speaker, or Avalon, Quad or whatever prefers that sound for the same reason.
So the usual short term analysis that component a "blows away, destroys, insert favorite descriptive word here..." is really not fair to anyone.
I've also found that while everyone hears differently, almost everyone keys in on a different aspect of sound that really turns their crank and will go to phenominal ends to get it. Put a bunch of guys in a room and ask them what they like. Some want bass, others want dynamics, etc etc.
It's really about identifying the character of a piece of gear so that you can determine if it will make you happy.
Keep listening, that's the key! And you may find that as your musical tastes expand and the more trained your ears become, you may go down a different path too and that's ok!
It's all about room, setup and system synergy.
Precious little gear has ever blown me away at a dealer or at a show,
because they can't take the time and effort to set it up perfectly. I would
think as ML owners you guys would appreciate that.
Take your speakers in your room and move em a foot away from where
your optimal setup is. Magic is gone, huh? Now imagine that's your
exposure to ML (or insert other product here).
That was my first experience with ML. Went to my dealer, listened to the speakers and really thought they were no big deal, but because I loved electrostatic speakers I took them home for the weekend and was really excited....
What I've seen after four years of spending about 10 hours a day reviewing gear in a closed environment is that every piece of gear has a distinct flavor or personality to the sound, which is usually reflected by the musical and sound taste of the designer. Most people have the same built in bias.
We all like ML speakers for that flavor of sound. The person who likes the sound of a Wilson speaker, or Avalon, Quad or whatever prefers that sound for the same reason.
So the usual short term analysis that component a "blows away, destroys, insert favorite descriptive word here..." is really not fair to anyone.
I've also found that while everyone hears differently, almost everyone keys in on a different aspect of sound that really turns their crank and will go to phenominal ends to get it. Put a bunch of guys in a room and ask them what they like. Some want bass, others want dynamics, etc etc.
It's really about identifying the character of a piece of gear so that you can determine if it will make you happy.
Keep listening, that's the key! And you may find that as your musical tastes expand and the more trained your ears become, you may go down a different path too and that's ok!
Joey_V
Well-known member
It's nice to be home.
The JM Labs sound is very detailed, more on the bright side of things. BW, however, is pretty good considering that on the whole, they aren't very expensive compared to the other outrageous companies out there.... and their BW Signature is garnering some good press out there - Magico Mini style.
OK, I've resisted long enough posting on this one, so here goes:
Most overrated, pretty much most 'high-end' cables, and agree with Tim, that MIT is one of the worst offenders. Basically they are bendable tone controls
On the speaker front, agree with Gordon that Wilson is waaay overrated. Mind you, I've heard some very nice Wilson setups, but then, I've heard some DIY speaker based systems that sounded better. So definitely overpriced as well.
Couldn't resist long enough, Jon....
Bernard
Well-known member
Very true. I used to own Quad 57s. When I heard them in the dealer's soundroom he had them set up on the ceiling, in the corners, pointing down. They imaged superbly; I could imagine a quartet in the space in front of me; they were so much better than anything else. At home they sounded great, but the soundstage always seemed flat, no matter where I positioned them, and what amplifier I used (Quad 303, Bedini 25/25, Dyna ST70, Copland 504). I then heard some ML SL3s, and they imaged superbly without any crazy ceiling placement, so I bought them. I am still always amazed when I hear instruments to the outside of and the back of the speakers.
Jeff,
Your words ring in a lot of truth. In most case scenarios - casting judgment on components based off of a few short demo's can often result in a misleading or even false impression of what a product is capable of. Still, with enough experience - one can begin to gauge what tickles their fancy.
While I cannot speak for the rest of the gang here, I have taken this thread as an opportunity to let the hair down, throw the usual "variables and considerations" to the wind, and just vent. Sometimes - it just feels good.
Your words ring in a lot of truth. In most case scenarios - casting judgment on components based off of a few short demo's can often result in a misleading or even false impression of what a product is capable of. Still, with enough experience - one can begin to gauge what tickles their fancy.
While I cannot speak for the rest of the gang here, I have taken this thread as an opportunity to let the hair down, throw the usual "variables and considerations" to the wind, and just vent. Sometimes - it just feels good.
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