Most overrated audio component you ever heard/seen/witnessed?

[David Matz]

Overrated = value/ price?

I think I have decided...

Between the Axiom M22, the Von Schweikert VR4jr, and the Rega Apollo...

I have decided that my single most disappointing experience was the Axiom M22. They were by far the most hyped up speaker, most tauted to be "neutral", most well reviewed bookshelf, most acclaimed if you went with the sheer number of positive comments on their site.

Joey, I have to respectfully disagree about the Apollo. I am a person who likes value, and the Apollo is a great value. It does everything the bigger guys do, just a bit less of it. It's great for the money.

I have not heard a lot of bad stuff as life is too short, but Krell stands out. Even at $40K per piece, you can get an Ayre product that costs 1/7th and delivers the same or better sound. Bryston costs 1/10th and delivers well also.

Also, to me Classe is overrated and over priced, but I would not call it junk. If it sold at a 30% discount, it would be more fairly priced.

 

[Joey_V]

Joey, I have to respectfully disagree about the Apollo. I am a person who likes value, and the Apollo is a great value. It does everything the bigger guys do, just a bit less of it. It's great for the money.

I have not heard a lot of bad stuff as life is too short, but Krell stands out. Even at $40K per piece, you can get an Ayre product that costs 1/7th and delivers the same or better sound. Bryston costs 1/10th and delivers well also.

Also, to me Classe is overrated and over priced, but I would not call it junk. If it sold at a 30% discount, it would be more fairly priced.

David,

I will have to disagree with the Apollo. I heard it next to a Naim C5i, absolutely 100% no contest. Another pseudo-audiophile friend was with me, sat down and easily picked out the Apollo as being the "fuzzy, smokey imaging one". Bottomline from my demo, I would not pay $1K for what I heard, I would rather put up a little more cash and get something that I felt was significantly better. After that demo, I never understood the appeal of the Apollo. It's not THAT cheap, and it's not that good either... atleast to me.

I will agree though, Classe. I heard their top CDP202 (I think that's the model name), and Ayre mopped it for less money (C5xe). No wonder Stereophile has Ayre X5xe as their A+ product.

Joey

PS
We will have a listening session soon.. give me some time to finish up my studies and exams and we will do what we intended to do with cables, cdps, and now, vinyl. Talk to you soon, my friend.

 

[C.A.P]

Infinity IRS BETA with Krell amps and Acuphase cd player. It was at a store demo . I was young and wanted to be blown away . I brought in the 1812 overture Telarc recording. I wanted cannon shots to re bound off me like I was there. The demo was poor . The image was shallow and thin. The bass was not deep and pounding. Maybee I was looking for to much but it was a disappointment to me. Especially the cost of the total system. At that time it re affirmed my Carver amps bridged into a set of Amazing Silver's.

 

[Zero]

*puts on the flame suit*

Paradigm

Don't get me wrong, I have 100% respect for what Paradigm does for high fidelity audio. While I can see how people would be attracted to their house sound, it's never done a thing for me. No matter the electronics or the product line, I've always found them to be unrefined, harsh, hollow, and lacking in timbre.

Revel

From the M22's to the Salon's, this brand tops the charts when it comes to me disliking a brand most others seem to at the very least - enjoy. Sure, they are quick, detailed, have strong dynamic range and an open sound. To these ears, they are also painfully boring, dry, and have poor tone.

Rogue

Let me begin by stating that I have not heard all of Rogue's components. That said, the pieces I have heard from Rogue have always left me shaking my head. Pretty looks with an otherwise very mediocre presentation. I love tubes, but pieces like Rogue simply do not give the valve sound much justice. It's not just them, my impressions extend to other affordable pieces from the likes of Jolida, Prima Luna, and Anthem. You can go solid state and get fewer compromises.

I have plenty of other brands and model numbers I am not so fond of - but because there are many people that actually feel the same as I - they just wont quality for this thread.

 

[amey01]

Amey,

We have very similar ears.... I found Quad more like, "Ehh... it's ok, but I don't see what it does better than ML at similar pricepoints."

With Linn, well, I gotta tell you. I was just at my local hi-end dealer last friday. The Linn LP-12 sounded good, but it SKIPPED so easily. It was placed on top of what seemed to be a large/hefty wooden cabinet (not a rack, a full cabinet) and it still skipped! Dealer said that's the problem with the LP12, "...you gotta be careful around it."

For $8,000 base price, I better be able to breath around my system without having to worry about the record skipping.

Oh, and I also listened to the Linn Artikulat 350A. Though I wouldn't say they were bad... they were certainly more than OK, but I suppose I expected a little more out of them when the dealer told me their retail. For the price, I thought the 350A sounded just like you said... dead and lifeless.


I'd rather pick up a pair of Wilson Sophia 2 for a second system, hold onto the Summits.. and spend the rest on a car.

Well, I can tell you the Linn products I was listening to were not as good as the Artikulat 350A, but I don't know where they did sit in the line.

We do appear to have similar ears. For me, I could tell it was a technically competent system, but just wasn't able to convey the emotion of the music.

Also the LP12 - very comptent in some areas, but abysmal in others. A flawed product in my opinion.

Have to disagree on Classé though! Although I will say that their reputation for amps is a lot higher than for CDPs. They are an amplification company - not a source company. Just like ML CDPs would no doubt be crap.

 

[Joey_V]

Have to disagree on Classé though! Although I will say that their reputation for amps is a lot higher than for CDPs. They are an amplification company - not a source company. Just like ML CDPs would no doubt be crap.

I like their amps, no doubt. Their CDP is not up to par as their amps though. See? We have the same ears.

 

[Beat_Dominator]

You want flame suit.... I hate McIntosh gear. It just doesn't "go" with my ears or something. I wouldn't call it over rated for that reason though.

KEF gear on the other hand.......

 

[Joey_V]

BD,

That be some real thick and heavy duty flame suit you got on, buddy!

 

[Dreamer]

Wow, that's a tough call...

Krell CD players (dry analytical, and not engaging), Transparent cables (they cost HOW MUCH?), Dunlevy speakers, just about anything made by Mark Levinson (excpt their CD players), Goldmund speakers (costs more than a small BMW, and weighs almost as much), Polk speakers, Infinity speakers, Wilson speakers, Focal speakers, Totem speakers, Paradigm speakers (but their subs are VERY nice), all things Bose, Alpine car audio, McIntosh CD/DVD players, the new Meridian gear (anything after the "500" series), anything by Nakamichi (with the possible exception of the "Dragon" line), the list goes on and on...

I'd like to see a list of the most UNDER-Rated gear. You know, the stuff that is actually reasonably priced, and knocks the "big boys" off their perch in terms of build quality, reliability, and sound quality. That one would be easy--Benchmark DAC, Carver and Sunfire amps, Oppo DVD players, Otari 5050-series reel-to-reel tape decks, White Zombie & Black Mountain cables, Michael Greene Room Tunes, Isopod cones, QRK broadcast turntables...

--Richard

 

[Zero]

Vintage Carver anything - From that A400 Cube and the Silver Signature mono's to their "Amazing" hybrid ribbon/cone speakers. Sure, great stuff for rock and roll - on anything else? The words completely unrefined and muddy come to mind.

Martin Logan Prodigy - *Runs, ducks, hides*. You know, its not a bad speaker. That is, if you like piercing highs and a 20 ft mouth for a sound-stage. The bass is pretty strong and powerful, although its no secret that the woofer never quite matched the panel too well. Well, at least they are panels that can rock and roll - thats worth somethin' right? *prepares for da burn*

edit: disclaimer: I'm having a bit of fun with this post. While the above hardly qualify as 'over rated'.. I still had to vent. Ahhhhh - feels so much better.

 

[Joey_V]

Oh to hell with it, mine as well jump in full bore;

Soundstring Cables - Hundreds of dollars for performance that rivals Monster Cable.

Vintage Carver anything - From that A400 Cube and the Silver Signature mono's to their "Amazing" hybrid ribbon/cone speakers. Sure, great stuff for rock and roll - on anything else? The words completely unrefined and muddy come to mind.

Martin Logan Prodigy - *Runs, ducks, hides*. You know, its not a bad speaker. That is, if you like piercing highs and a 20 ft mouth for a sound-stage. The bass is pretty strong and powerful, although its no secret that the woofer never quite matched the panel too well. Well, at least they are panels that can rock and roll - thats worth somethin' right? *prepares for da burn*

Mackie Studio Monitors - Plastic. 'Nuff said.

Easy there Sean... not everyone likes Totem. Easy, boy...

 

[Dreamer]

Vintage Carver anything - From that A400 Cube and the Silver Signature mono's to their "Amazing" hybrid ribbon/cone speakers. Sure, great stuff for rock and roll - on anything else? The words completely unrefined and muddy come to mind.

You've got at least 2 or 3 members of this forum that might ask you to step out into the parking lot over this one, bro...

Next time you're in NC, drop me a line, and I'll have you over for a listen. I think you might have to re-think your opinion.

--Richard

 

[Zero]

Joey - One word; MINI'S! Get back to your questions you spoiled asian.

As for the Prodigy's, you of all people should know my tendency to pull a few legs, especially in a zone of peace of harmony. Heck, it keeps things fun. Although the 20ft mouth thing is not entirely un-true eh?

As for Totem - you may be surprised to know that one of the most disappointing demo's I've ever had in a showroom entailed a pair of Hawks and roughly 30 or so k worth of Krell electronics. Between the poor room and poor match of electronics, it produced a sound that may have been almost as good as a Bose wave radio. The best part of it all? I took a friend with me just to hear that gear. In the room next door, an inexpensive Denon receiver running a pair of Klipsch RB-75's laid the Krell/Totem system to waste.


Dreamer - Thanks for the offer! Now if I only had my Sunfire Signature True with me - we could make it all a complete match!

 

[risabet]

Amey,

With Linn, well, I gotta tell you. I was just at my local hi-end dealer last friday. The Linn LP-12 sounded good, but it SKIPPED so easily. It was placed on top of what seemed to be a large/hefty wooden cabinet (not a rack, a full cabinet) and it still skipped! Dealer said that's the problem with the LP12, "...you gotta be careful around it."

For $8,000 base price, I better be able to breath around my system without having to worry about the record skipping.

Rant on!

Let's set the record straight, your Linn dealer is a total, absolute moron when it comes to setting up and siting an LP12. Placing any light, suspended table on a "large/hefty" cabinet is the best way to make them skip known to man. Linn recommends a light table or wall shelf, and every user knows that this is the only way to site an LP12, and when sited such the LP12 is nearly impervious to outside influence. My daughters dance, skip and hop around right in front of mine and it doesn't ever skip or even wobble. The cat is a regular on the dustcover also, same result.

So to wrap up, your dealer doesn't have the table set up properly, find another dealer who knows what the f*&k he's doing and listen to the table as it should be set-up. Anyone who would take 8K from someone should be able to demonstrate the table properly. "You gotta be careful around it" what a douche bag!

Rant off!

 

[Joey_V]

Rant on!

Let's set the record straight, your Linn dealer is a total, absolute moron when it comes to setting up and siting an LP12. Placing any light, suspended table on a "large/hefty" cabinet is the best way to make them skip known to man. Linn recommends a light table or wall shelf, and ever user knows that this is the only way to site an LP12, and when sited such the LP12 is nearly impervious to outside influence. My daughters dance, skip and hop around right in front of mine and it doesn't ever skip or even wobble. The cat is a regular on the dustcover also, same result.

So to wrap up, your dealer doesn't have the table set up properly, find another dealer who knows what the f*&k he's doing and listen to the table as it should be set-up. Anyone who would take 8K from someone should be able to demonstrate the table properly. "You gotta be careful around it" what a douche bag!

Rant off!

After all I read about the LP12, I figured that's what it was. Should've been more isolated. It was odd though because the cabinet was very big.... literally about 1/2 a car in size and built as a part of the room (not some table/cabinet you buy at a furniture shop and drop in a room). I would be surprised if it wasn't as isolated as a Grand Prix Monaco stand, but I could definitely be wrong. Perhaps you're right and they require a light table/suspended shelf from the wall.

I dunno. I will tell you it sounded nice though.

 

[risabet]

After all I read about the LP12, I figured that's what it was. Should've been more isolated. It was odd though because the cabinet was very big.... literally about 1/2 a car in size and built as a part of the room (not some table/cabinet you buy at a furniture shop and drop in a room). I would be surprised if it wasn't as isolated as a Grand Prix Monaco stand, but I could definitely be wrong. Perhaps you're right and they require a light table/suspended shelf from the wall.

I dunno. I will tell you it sounded nice though.

Bigger isn't always better A heavy mass loaded table may prefer a massive support like that, but the LP12 definitely DOES NOT! Mana (sadly OOB), the Sound Organization and AcousTech all made great tables for the LP12 and its ilk. If you think it sounded good like that you should hear one properly set-up

 

[Bernard]

......... your Linn dealer is a total, absolute moron ............

Reminds me: when looking to replace my Thorens TD160 many years ago, I walked into a Linn dealership and talked to the owner. When I asked him the price of an LP12, he said, "There is no such thing". I asked him what the hell he was talking about. He then ranted, "They have changed just about every screw in that thing, so it's nothing like the original". I then asked him the price of the current LP12, to which he again responded that there was no such thing as an LP12. Needless to say, I did not buy a Linn.

I thought that Linn's pickiness about who sold their stuff was legendary.

 

[eknuds01]

I have to agree with Dave about the cables. Dropping thousands of dollars on a PAIR of cables seems terribly excessive. Since cables are so light and portable, it's easy to borrow from a friend and take them for a test drive.

Other overrated components? When I was looking to audition some Rotel gear 3-4 months ago, I listened to the newest Quad ESLs with some pricey CJ gear. Did it sound nice? Sure. Was I blown away by the 20+k system? No.

I'll add some fuel to the fire and state that just about any component (with the exclusion of speakers) that is north of 10 grand is very likely to be overrated. Many magazines and reviewers don't audition equipment unless it's in the 5 figure range, and this is sad. That price point is way out of reach for most people, and very often the equipment doesn't live up to the hype anyway.

In my opinion once you start dropping over 3-4k for an amp, cd player, DAC, etc what you get in improvement for each increment of hundred, or thousand, dollars seems less and less.

 

[Joey_V]

I'll add some fuel to the fire and state that just about any component (with the exclusion of speakers) that is north of 10 grand is very likely to be overrated. Many magazines and reviewers don't audition equipment unless it's in the 5 figure range, and this is sad. That price point is way out of reach for most people, and very often the equipment doesn't live up to the hype anyway.

I would have to agree AND disagree with you there.

1. I agree that speakers north of $10,000 is definitely in the realm of overrated and subject to tremendous diminishing returns. And it seems to me that the industry today puts a lot of emphasis on "more money = mo' betta' sound" mentality. Almost anyone has free reign over what they charge now, looking at these RMAF events, $10,000 seems to be the entry fee nowadays. Everyone is looking to "outcharge" someone else, just so the mentality that it "should" be better is in their camp.

2. I also agree with the operative word "likely" when you said "... north of 10 grand is very likely to be overrated". There are jewels out there that command their price, and lets not forget that despite all the 'posers' out there, there are real audio gems that live up to their legendary status. By this I mean, something some of us would definitely buy if we had the money.

3. Though not part of this thread's subject, I will have to politely disagree with you with regards to magazine reviews. Sure they can review more affordable stuff, but I view these magazines more of an "oogle, ooh, ahh" fest rather than a place to find my next gear. Would you rather Car and Driver or Motortrend review only affordable sedans? How do you think it would look if the front cover of those magazines only had Kias and Corollas headlining? Would you buy Playboy if it showed your average size 12 female?

Magazines are for fun, people take them way too seriously. Just my 2 cents.

 

[risabet]

I thought that Linn's pickiness about who sold their stuff was legendary.

It once was. I worked at a shop with two locations and only one was allowed to sell the LP12, the reason? The one shop's set-up guy was actually trained in the Linn factory and if the other site wanted to sell the table directly one of us would have to go the Scotland to be trained. We simply got tables from the other store.