Martin logan Stage & Montis owners please step inside.....

[silver305]

Hi there,
As I stated in my previous thread, I just recently purchased a stage x to match my Montis. I also bought a Marantz 8802 processor (I have one for sale if anyone is interested) and this center channel is perhaps the hardest center channel to understand. What I mean by that, it's simply very difficult to hear articulate voices. I can hear gun shots, explosions, etc without a problem, but the moment there is dialogue, I feel as if it is VERY hard to understand why it sounds so "low" if that makes any sense.
To give you an idea of how I have my set up, I have the stage x mounted on the wall right below my screen and the montis are about 4 feet in front in order to keep them off the wall as some of you have recommended that I do with them. This is exactly how i had the motif x when i first owned it and i didn't seem to have any issues with its sound.

With that said, i have been playing with a ton of settings in the Marantz 8802 to see if i can "boost up" the midrange/voice frequencies to get the center channel to "catch up" with that the montis do. i spoke to a very knowledgeable audiophile and told him my issue with the stage x and he said "welcome to the challenges of electrostatics". He claims that because the montis have such HUGE panels and the midrange/panel portion of the stage x is very small, this will always be an issue because i am trying to make such a small panel keep up with two huge panels. He is a very well known and highly technical individual so i am sure there is some truth to what he is saying. However, i have decided to tackle this problem by doing the following (please give me your input or feedback)

1. Get rid of my mark levinson amp and buy a dedicated monoblock for the stage x (i actually just paid for a classe CA-M300 MONOBLOCK YESTERDAY)
2. Get the stage x off the wall and place it on my entertainment unit in order to have it more parallel to the montis rather than so far back.

These are the only 2 ideas i will attempt in the next few days to see if i can get the speaker to "speak" more articulately and louder. Again, i can hear every single special effect pretty good from the speaker, but when it comes to voices, it really lags behind.
I tried raising the dbs in the Marantz and all that did was make the speaker louder, but it didn't really do much for the midrange.

let me know if some of you have also found this issue or how did you solve the problem. I am thinking maybe this sucker needs a ton of juice in order to keep up with the montis. i am not sure though!

 

[TomDac]

I'd say that having your center channel 4 feet behind your mains less than ideal. The rear wave of the Montis could be interfering with the sound waves coming from the center.

Take out the mains... Unplug and disconnect them from your system. Then see if the center sounds better.

Also, are you certain the electrostatic element in the center channel is working???

 

[ktl]

I have Motif X with Montis and it works really well. Dialogue is excellent and multichannel music is superb so if Motif X works Stage X should work even better.

 

[silver305]

I'd say that having your center channel 4 feet behind your mains less than ideal. The rear wave of the Montis could be interfering with the sound waves coming from the center.

Take out the mains... Unplug and disconnect them from your system. Then see if the center sounds better.

Also, are you certain the electrostatic element in the center channel is working???

i actually just spoke to ML. They said i should unplug the speaker for about 5 hours and then leave it unplugged, but feed it speaker signal only and hear the speaker. Then, plug the power into the speaker and see if the center electrostatic piece "wakes up" creating more sound. i am going to try that today because something might be off..

 

[TomDac]

Cool.. let us know what happens.

 

[silver305]

i have been listening to the stage without the montis and i think you could be correct. I feel as if it is perhaps the sound coming out the back of the montis that bounces off the wall behind them and that kind of "kills" the center channel. i can't believe nobody has detected such problem before? at least when mounting the speaker on the wall it feels as if it gets lost. I bet if i place it parallel to the montis, it will fix the issue.
Heck, the service guy i spoke to today said he had his processor settings at 6db for the center stage x and 0db for his montis!!!
i am surprised nobody has ever mentioned this before.

 

[topofroc]

How close is your Stage X to the floor?

I recently had my Stage on a 16 inch high stand in a temporary set-up. Even with the speaker tilted up, voices sounded congested and muffled. I had to crank the gain 3x the level of my ML Vantage mains. Then I set the Stage on a high shelf directly above my TV (about 6 ft from the floor). Voices became crystal clear and the Stage blended perfectly with my other speakers. I was also able to turn down the gain of the Stage to match the Vantages.

Might not be your issue, but if your Stage X is less than 2ft from the floor, it might be worth it to try placing it higher up...

 

[ktl]

Here's a great look into ML home theater set up by JonFo:
http://www.martinloganowners.com/fo...mpacts-of-location-orientation-and-treatments

Here's something he said about Stage:

"I can fairly confidently state that if you have a Stage, Cinema or other open back ESL center, rush to the phones and order one MiniTrap HF and place that on its side two feet behind the center and set off from the wall by three inches. This is guaranteed to improve your dialog perception."

 

[Hocky]

Make sure it is aimed correctly. The stage has very poor dispersion, so if it is aimed wrong, you won't hear it.

 

[silver305]

How close is your Stage X to the floor?

I recently had my Stage on a 16 inch high stand in a temporary set-up. Even with the speaker tilted up, voices sounded congested and muffled. I had to crank the gain 3x the level of my ML Vantage mains. Then I set the Stage on a high shelf directly above my TV (about 6 ft from the floor). Voices became crystal clear and the Stage blended perfectly with my other speakers. I was also able to turn down the gain of the Stage to match the Vantages.

Might not be your issue, but if your Stage X is less than 2ft from the floor, it might be worth it to try placing it higher up...

It's about 4 feet off the floor and mounted on the wall. It's approximately 3 feet behind the Montis.

I have not done the room correction yet but I suspect it might raise the volume quite high on the stge.

 

[silver305]

Make sure it is aimed correctly. The stage has very poor dispersion, so if it is aimed wrong, you won't hear it.

Here's a picture. It might help seeing what the problem can be.

 

[|Tch0rT|]

Take it off the wall and set it on top of the Marantz temporarily and see if it improves.

 

[Hocky]

It is hard to tell if it is aimed right in the pic. You should be able to draw a straight line from the tweeter to your noise. If it is too high or too low, you will lose most of the midrange.

 

[silver305]

can anyone tell me WHY would martin logan allow for this speaker to be mounted on the wall when electrostatic panels rely on a certain distance off the back wall in order for the sound to disperse? i was just thinking about this today that maybe wall mounting the stage x is not as effective as just setting on top of a shelf because the sound needs to travel on both sides of the speaker, but when you wall mount it, the sound gets trapped between the wall and the electrostatic panel.
it will be interesting to see if the speaker sounds much better once i set it on top of the shelf.

 

[gordonmenninger]

move the Marantz unit altogether and set it on the equipment rack even with the front left and right. That should do the trick! Also you definitely need some acoustical panels behind main speakers to absorb rear wave. Acoustics are a huge deal when it comes to ML speakers!