Martin Logan Montis positioning: What's best for these?

[silver305]

i am in the quest to try to get more out of the Montis before i decide to move to something else. I have owned them for a few months only so they are broken in. I need to know if there are any adjustments i can do to them to squeeze more from them? yes, i have done a search on all forums, but there are so many different opinions, contradictions, mathematical equations, etc, etc that i rather give my current situation and get input from those of you who have done this before.
With that said, My room is 14 long, 23ft width, 9ft height. The speakers are about 30 inches (measuring the top of the panel to the back wall) off the back wall, they are 9 feet apart from each other and i sit about 11-12 feet away from them. The bass knob is at -2 because i sit about 2 feet off the back wall so i get enough bass as it is. i have done the toe in based on the flashlight exercise. I experimented with the rake angle, but to be honest i didn't hear anything big difference in the sound other than i lost sound when i stand up which is a common side effect. I think there might have been a little more "treble" as well when i sat down, but i don't quite remember. At this point, the only thing i kept reading is that the best for these speakers is to have them 60 inches off the wall, but how do you do the rest of the set up? do you toe them in first or after you do the rake angle? how do you know when you have toed them in way too much? It's only me doing these tweaks so by the time i am done doing the tweak and go back to sit down and play music again, i forgot what the speaker sounded like before so it is kinda tough to really know whether what you are hearing is better or worse in some aspects than what you had done 30 minutes ago.
I do about 65% music and 35% movies.

i definitely would appreciate all the feedback possible to squeeze the most out of these speakers.

thank you guys

 

[Bernard]

Reading your post, I can't help but wonder, have you ever sat down and just enjoyed the music, or do you spend all your time playing with positioning of the speakers?

You can only get a true measure of the speakers if you spend an extended amount of time listening to them in each of various positions, rather than constantly moving

 

[silver305]

Reading your post, I can't help but wonder, have you ever sat down and just enjoyed the music, or do you spend all your time playing with positioning of the speakers?

You can only get a true measure of the speakers if you spend an extended amount of time listening to them in each of various positions, rather than constantly moving

Absolutely. I am just trying to see if there's anything else I can do at this point. I'm reading all sorts of opinions here and there's not a real forward way to get the speakers to sound better. Rake angle, toe in, distance from the wall, equilateral triangle, Etc etc. This is why I decided to post here and give my overall situation and get ideas from people who have spent hours trying different positions.

 

[guido]

If you can't hear a difference after making an adjustment, then the adjustment made no difference. At that point, I would suggest you relax and just enjoy the music (or film)

That said, do keep the speakers about 60 inches from the front wall, slightly toed in so the flashlight beam is centered on the inner third of the panel. Try them a bit closer to each other so you can sit at the apex of an isosceles, rather than equilateral triangle.

Enjoy what you are hearing! Best luck!

Regards,

Guido F.

 

[timm]

So sounds like you have them on the long wall? Can you move them to short wall and then get them 6' off the short wall w plenty of room behind you since you then have 23' of depth as opposed to 14'? Not completely sure of your room situation

 

[twich54]

silver, I don't know what to make of you ……….. why have you created two threads (which contradict each other with regards to your speaker set up) on your 'Montis Mix Up' ?

Gather your composure and tell us what's really bugging you !

 

[Gordon Gray]

Agreed Amigo but will try to help one final time.

You should be able to hear when you are getting "close".

Once there, try minor adjustments and listen to it for a day or two.

You need to establish some benchmarks via extended listening before you can evaluate any changes in future adjustments and improvements thereof.

You also need to learn "patience" and, as others said, enjoy the music and the process. Took me six months before I dialed in the last ML I had. And I do alot of listening.

 

[Gordon Gray]

The bass knob is at -2 because i sit about 2 feet off the back wall so i get enough bass as it is.

I experimented with the rake angle, but to be honest i didn't hear anything big difference in the sound I think there might have been a little more "treble" as well when i sat down, but i don't quite remember.

Bass knob setting. You should be hearing many things when you adjust this setting. Mid bass impact / speed, low bass definition, and the impact on midrange clarity / tonality / imaging. Distance from the back wall is only one influencing factor.

Rake angle setting. Difference should be readily apparent.

I don't remember. Don't know what to say.

With all due respect and based on my some 25 years of experience with ML's and feedback from other long term ML owners, it appears you are lost at sea.

As I said above, your methodology needs to be adjusted or something else is going on with your system, which prohibits you from hearing the adjustments or ML's may not be for you and you should just move on to another speaker type.

Best,

GG

 

[silver305]

Bass knob setting. You should be hearing many things when you adjust this setting. Mid bass impact / speed, low bass definition, and the impact on midrange clarity / tonality / imaging. Distance from the back wall is only one influencing factor.

Rake angle setting. Difference should be readily apparent.

I don't remember. Don't know what to say.

With all due respect and based on my some 25 years of experience with ML's and feedback from other long term ML owners, it appears you are lost at sea.

As I said above, your methodology needs to be adjusted or something else is going on with your system, which prohibits you from hearing the adjustments
or ML's may not be for you and you should just move on to another speaker type.

Best,

GG

what do you use under the montis in order to get the perfect 90 degree rake angle? the adjustable feet aren't enough.
I also brought them forward a little more so they now sit about 3 feet off the wall rather than 2. i do feel there is improvement for sure. The problem Gordon is that maybe i need the help of others in order to fine tune it as i am sitting down on the couch and just ask them to move the speakers. This would give me the best results in my opinion.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Silver,

If I were near, I'd gladly try to help.

For me, the best place to start is to use a well recorded female voice with minimal instrument back up.

You should be able to clearly hear the recording ambiance be it live or studio.

You want good center fill while being able to hear the acoustics of the venue.

Once there, use a selection that has well recorded acoustic bass. Again, keep it simple.

Then move onto more complex music. Try some rock and roll or jazz that has some good drum material. You want to hear the percussive impact (punch), tight imaging and speed. Listen also to the cymbals. Especially initial attach and decay.

Keep those three discs in rotation until all is optimized.

And then try a well recorded solo piano piece. IMO, the most difficult instrument to get right.

Plan one separate listening sessions for each of the above to avoid confusion.

Finally, go to five feet from the back wall if you can and remember to measure distance and toe in to ensure both speakers are setup "exactly" the same. From my experience, once your are close, a 1/4" does matter.

Use the slider feet initially. Much easier to move and adjust.

Once you are "there", install the spikes and then adjust azimuth.

Good luck and be patient. Hope that helps.

Gordon

PS: Assume Montis has the adjustable spikes (same as Summits) to allow you to set vertical. Please explain.

 

[silver305]

Silver,

If I were near, I'd gladly try to help.

For me, the best place to start is to use a well recorded female voice with minimal instrument back up.

You should be able to clearly hear the recording ambiance be it live or studio.

You want good center fill while being able to hear the acoustics of the venue.

Once there, use a selection that has well recorded acoustic bass. Again, keep it simple.

Then move onto more complex music. Try some rock and roll or jazz that has some good drum material. You want to hear the percussive impact (punch), tight imaging and speed. Listen also to the cymbals. Especially initial attach and decay.

Keep those three discs in rotation until all is optimized.

And then try a well recorded solo piano piece. IMO, the most difficult instrument to get right.

Plan one separate listening sessions for each of the above to avoid confusion.

Finally, go to five feet from the back wall if you can and remember to measure distance and toe in to ensure both speakers are setup "exactly" the same. From my experience, once your are close, a 1/4" does matter.

Use the slider feet initially. Much easier to move and adjust.

Once you are "there", install the spikes and then adjust azimuth.

Good luck and be patient. Hope that helps.

Gordon


PS: Assume Montis has the adjustable spikes (same as Summits) to allow you to set vertical. Please explain.

I cant use spikes on my wood floor. I need to use the other rubber feet they come with and they are not long enough to get the panel to be perpendicular to the floor unless I stick books under the rear feet of the montis. I was wondering what else could be used to make the speakers perfectly perpendicular to the floor.

 

[guido]

I cant use spikes on my wood floor. I need to use the other rubber feet they come with and they are not long enough to get the panel to be perpendicular to the floor unless I stick books under the rear feet of the montis. I was wondering what else could be used to make the speakers perfectly perpendicular to the floor.

Place a quarter between wooden floor and spike. On the other hand, personally, I found that double thickness E.V.A. Anti vibration pads in lieu of spikes yield a clearer sound and more focused soundstage.

Regards,

Guido F.