Lyra delos

[StirlingTrayle]

You are welcome here regardless. Most of us are pretty good at determining what is "promoting" and what is sincere interst in customer satisfaction. You seem to fall in the latter category.

Thank you. I've been wanting to join in discussions like this for years but have always hesitated because I am in the industry and didn't want people to think I was using the forum for promoting. I hear some folks do this under an alias, but that's pretty low and horribly desperate. But with the development of the Delos, I figured it would be good to check around and make sure the development was understood properly. Love the discussions!

 

[FISH_MAN]

it does seem strange that after all these years you guys could come up with some ground breaking development on a piece of technology that has been in use for so long.so far I just love this cartridge perhaps this would be a good time to elaborate on why this one is so different as far as it's angle and so forth.BTW my speakers have never sounded so much in balance with each other and engaging !

 

[StirlingTrayle]

it does seem strange that after all these years you guys could come up with some ground breaking development on a piece of technology that has been in use for so long.so far I just love this cartridge perhaps this would be a good time to elaborate on why this one is so different as far as it's angle and so forth.BTW my speakers have never sounded so much in balance with each other and engaging !

Yeah, it does seem odd. It's been talked about for years as a problem and to the best of our knowledge had not yet been addressed. I'd like to talk about how Delos is different but I'll need to think a little on how to do it without the soap box.

 

[Bernard]

Yeah, it does seem odd. It's been talked about for years as a problem and to the best of our knowledge had not yet been addressed. I'd like to talk about how Delos is different but I'll need to think a little on how to do it without the soap box.

Please explain what the problem was and how you resolved it, without giving away any IP.

Don't worry about the soap box; go for it. I'd rather you get up on a soap box than hold back for the sake of decorum.

 

[FISH_MAN]

Please explain what the problem was and how you resolved it, without giving away any IP.

Don't worry about the soap box; go for it. I'd rather you get up on a soap box than hold back for the sake of decorum.

I agree give it up dude ! tell us how all the other cartridges suck in comparison lol
just kidding I have heard other amazing cartridges.

 

[DrJRapp]

Yeah, it does seem odd. It's been talked about for years as a problem and to the best of our knowledge had not yet been addressed. I'd like to talk about how Delos is different but I'll need to think a little on how to do it without the soap box.

How about starting by telling us how this cartridge differs from you own offerrings in the same general price range...ie: the Dorian and Argo i. Then it wouldn't seem "soap box" and you wouldn't appear to be dissing other brands.

OBTW, my experience with high end MC carts is limited...And I only ever really liked one....an Argo i, so you can see I'm already a fanboy.

 

[StirlingTrayle]

Please explain what the problem was and how you resolved it, without giving away any IP.

Don't worry about the soap box; go for it. I'd rather you get up on a soap box than hold back for the sake of decorum.

I guess it's important to first state that as with anything, there are many factors that must be considered when designing a cartridge. This development that Lyra has contributed must be considered as only a part of an equation that has a great many facets and does not negate or override all the good things Lyra and other firms have accomplished in furthering the state of cartridge development, rather it is another piece of the puzzle. A great cartridge is a great cartridge. The problem is that when a cartridge is at rest, the coils are in a neutral position relative to the magnet system and reside in what should be a relatively uniform flux field. Once loaded onto the record and tracking force is applied to the suspension, the orientation of the coils is now such that the top of the coil is closer to the rear magnet or pole piece and the bottom of the coils is closer to the front pole piece or magnet and no longer in the uniform flux field and the relatively linear magnetic field that provided. I say relatively because nothing is perfect. While it has been discussed for many years, the concept of providing a uniform flux field for the coils to "reside" in during playback has been considered with a variety of solutions. Exotic magnet and pole piece materials, ring magnets, disc magnets, etc., have been considered and all can be effective to one degree or another given the proper execution of the design and quality of materials. In the Delos, Jonathan Carr has offered a mechanical solution of introducing a pre-bias to the coil alignment so that when loaded onto the record, the coils come into alignment rather than go out of alignment. I believe that when we are adjusting VTF on a cartridge, we are of course providing the correct down force for the stylus to trace the grooves, but we are also playing with the coil orientation in the flux field and how it is affecting the sound. By choosing a stylus type and a cantilever material with the correct stiffness and resonant behavior to trace highly modulated inner grooves at a particular tracking force, we should be able to use this system to provide a very narrow or even exact tracking force recommendation which ends up with optimal coil alignment. As the instructions indicate, a tracking force if 1.7 - 1.8 grams is recommended and I am told that the builder dials in the cartridge at 1.75 grams. Providing a mechanical system that puts the coils in a position as close to a uniform magnetic field as the system will provide is the icing on the cake of a well designed cartridge, but does not alone make a great cartridge. The goal is quiet tracing of even the nastiest of grooves so the benefit of this system should be most effective when all other parameters (cartridge, tonearm, table) are pretty solid in terms of design and alignment. Issues such as overhang, azimuth, zenith, correct arm placement, etc. are all things that can seriously degrade a cartridge's ability to smoothly trace a groove so the more critical one is with all these parameters the more realized the benefit will be. The matrix of problems and interrelated solutions involved in analog equipment design is mind boggling to me. I'm surprised it even works and I consider it to be one of man's more unique and amazing accomplishments. Not sure if this answered your questions, but I'll give it another stab if it didn't.
Cheers!

 

[DrJRapp]

In the Delos, Jonathan Carr has offered a mechanical solution of introducing a pre-bias to the coil alignment so that when loaded onto the record, the coils come into alignment rather than go out of alignment. Cheers!

Elegantly simple solution....

 

[Bernard]

Not sure if this answered your questions, but I'll give it another stab if it didn't.
Cheers!

Thanks for the explanation; it does answer my questions. Wish I could get my hands on one to compare it with my (old) Koetsu, but that is not about to happen, so I hope that Jeff (tonepub) is in line for one. I'd like to hear Jeff's opinion.

 

[tonepub]

We should have a Delos on the way soon. I am anxious to compare it to my Dorian and Skala..

While I can't comment on the new tech. developments, the Argo-i, Skala and Titan-i all possess some of Lyra's latest work.

I've spent a lot of time listening to most of the Koetsus on systems that I'm familiar with and for my tastes the Rosewood Sig. Platinum has the best balance of resolution and musicality. The Black and Rosewood are both way too warm for my taste, but can certainly dish up a huge helping of "analog magic", especially if you listen to a lot of jazz, female vocals and 60's rock.

I like the Skala a LOT after using it for some time now and much like the Dynavector XV-1s, it offers great tonal neutrality, excellent dynamics and a lot of resolution without being harsh or strained, yet remains very musical too.

The Argo -i is a lot like this, but not as resolving or with as much bass weight.

I'll definitely have more to report when we get our hands on a Delos! But I'll bet it's good. I've yet to hear a Lyra that I didn't like.

 

[FISH_MAN]

I spoke with StirlingTrayle from immedia today and all I can tell you is this guy is serious about sound! he also gave me some helpful setup pointers and was a pleasure to talk with.

 

[FISH_MAN]

so how many people actually have used a microscope to look at the diamond on the end of their stylis ??? I just looked at my Ortofon fine line and it looked in good shape as far as I can tell, I used 400X mono magnification I will eventually buy a stereo microscope with picture capability so that I can take some pics to share with you guys. BTW I have other uses for the scope I have not gone totally crazy.I have heard that there is more to cartridge wear that diamond condition though so you can't use it alone.

 

[Victor]

We should have a Delos on the way soon. I am anxious to compare it to my Dorian and Skala..

While I can't comment on the new tech. developments, the Argo-i, Skala and Titan-i all possess some of Lyra's latest work.

I like the Skala a LOT after using it for some time now and much like the Dynavector XV-1s, it offers great tonal neutrality, excellent dynamics and a lot of resolution without being harsh or strained, yet remains very musical too.

The Argo -i is a lot like this, but not as resolving or with as much bass weight.

I'll definitely have more to report when we get our hands on a Delos! But I'll bet it's good. I've yet to hear a Lyra that I didn't like.

Well Jeff......did the Review sample of the Lyra Delos materialise? I'm anxious to hear what you thought of it ?

 

[tonepub]

sorry, still waiting, they are in short supply for review!

 

[Jimna]

Haven't heard much from Mr. Fish_Man in a while. Are you lurking out there?

He seemed to always have an interesting POV that's been lacking a bit.

 

[Dean Fox]

I have a Lyra Delos that I have been using for about 3 months. I haven't heard a lot of different cartridges so I can't compare the Delos to other good cartridges. But based on my limited experience the Delos is the best cartridge that I have ever owned. It is fast, detailed, good bass and most of all musical. It really sings! I truly enjoy this setup. I don't know how much is contributed by each component but together it is to my liking.

my system:
Boulder 865
Lehmann Decade
Rega P9
ML Vantage's
Transparent Audio super interconnects, cables and power cords
PS Audio PPP

 

[tonepub]

All of the lyra's I've tried work really well with the P 9 so you've probably got some great synergy going on there...

 

[Victor]

Hi Fish,
Sorry about the belated contribution - this is what Jonathan Carr had to say about cartridge loading for the Delos....

"For listeners interested in mathematically correct input loading, the value depends on the total capacitance between Delos and phono stage (comprised mostly by the tonearm cable). Note that "input loading" of low-impedance cartridges has comparatively less to do with the cartridge and is more about taming RF energy which could otherwise trigger non-linearities in the phono stage and the generation of intermodulation distortion. Since different phono stages have different tolerances for RF energy, expect the best-sounding loading value to vary according to the tonearm cable and phono stage."

"Nonetheless, you may try setting your phono stage's loading according to these number pairs. In each pair, the first number is the total capacitance between Delos and phono stage (in picofarads), the second number is the corresponding optimal impedance range: 50pF - 510~270ohm, 100pF - 390~200ohm, 150pF - 330~160ohm, 200pF - 300~150ohm, 250pF - 270~130ohm, 300pF - 240~120ohm, 350pF - 220~110ohm, 400pF - 220~110ohm, 450pF - 200~100ohm, 500pF - 200~100ohm, 550pF - 180~91ohm, 600pF - 180~91ohm. In each pair the first number is selected to suppress any peaks at RF frequencies to approximately 3dB (which should be acceptable to nearly all phono stages), while the second number will give 0dB (at the cost of slightly poorer phase response and reduced dynamics)."

"If you do not know the precise capacitance of your tonearm cable, 100pF per meter is standard, while low-capacitance cable is likely to be around 50pF per meter (we do not recommend high-capacitance cable). As approximate loading figures we suggest 510ohms for 1m low-capacitance cable, 430ohms for 1.5m low-capacitance cable, 390ohms for 1m standard cable or 2m low-capacitance cable, 330ohms for 1.5m standard cable or 3m low-capacitance cable, 270ohms for 2m standard cable or 4m low-capacitance cable, 240ohms for 3m standard cable, and 200ohms for 4m standard cable."

That ought to cover it
Cheers................................Victor

 

[tonepub]

That's an interesting post.

 

[RichTeer]

Very intersting--thanks for the info!