Let the amp war begin!

[Necrosuit]

Hey folks, been awhile since I posted something....

So, My system has drastically changed in the last few months, I went from Spires to CLX and Depth i sub, sold my DAC, CD player and TT to purchase a new AMR CD 77.1 cd player and now I am finding my self in the amp upgrade war.

I just borrowed my buddies LSA Statement amp and its very very pleasing. Best amp I have heard to date, but I have not heard Monos and am really intrigued by the mono setup.
I have about a $8k budget for monos and Pre, (maybe a hair more if it’s that amazing).
So I’m looking at
1) MBL 8011a monos with the Thor Audio ta-1000 mk ii pre
2) Pass Labs XA 160 monos with what pre?
3) the current Statement amp that I am borrowing (integrated)
4) Classe M600 monos w/ what pre?
5) Conrad Johnson Monos.

I know this is a very opinionated discussion, but I am at the buying point and just want all opinions I can get from folks experiences to aid me in some possible decisions.

I thank you all as in the past you've all been a great help!
:rocker:

 

[babydoc]

What AMP?

Hey folks, been awhile since I posted something....

So, My system has drastically changed in the last few months, I went from Spires to CLX and Depth i sub, sold my DAC, CD player and TT to purchase a new AMR CD 77.1 cd player and now I am finding my self in the amp upgrade war.

I just borrowed my buddies LSA Statement amp and its very very pleasing. Best amp I have heard to date, but I have not heard Monos and am really intrigued by the mono setup.
I have about a $8k budget for monos and Pre, (maybe a hair more if it’s that amazing).
So I’m looking at
1) MBL 8011a monos with the Thor Audio ta-1000 mk ii pre
2) Pass Labs XA 160 monos with what pre?
3) the current Statement amp that I am borrowing (integrated)
4) Classe M600 monos w/ what pre?
5) Conrad Johnson Monos.

I know this is a very opinionated discussion, but I am at the buying point and just want all opinions I can get from folks experiences to aid me in some possible decisions.

I thank you all as in the past you've all been a great help!
:rocker:

I have fueled the CLX's for nearly two years with Pass Labs XA-100.5's and a Pass Labs XP-20 preamp. Never looked back. IMO unless you listen at the ear bleed level you don't need more than 30 watts of class A power. For me, the important issue is match between preamp and amp since design usually obeys the form follows function rule. As I write this, I am listening to CLX's in a 2.1 (the .1 are 4 ML Descent-i subs) and lovin' it.

 

[Rich]

I know this is a very opinionated discussion, but I am at the buying point and just want all opinions I can get from folks experiences to aid me in some possible decisions.

My opinion?

Pass Labs XA 160 Mono's with just about any decent preamp. Roger Sanders makes one that mates beautifully with Pass gear.

 

[Ron]

I was running the McIntosh MC402. I am using the McIntosh MC501,s for a short while on loan until I get the McIntosh MC601's installed this Wednesday. The MC501 monoblocks can be had for about $6000-6500 on audiogon used. They are very nice with the CLX's. I am sure there are alot of good amps out there to choose from.

 

[tsv_1]

Hi Pete,

First, I wish you the best in terms of landing on amplification that best suits your system and your taste. We've already chatted some on this issue and so you already know what prompted me to make a recent change in my own system wrt to amps (i.e. power rating)

While I loved the sound of the PrimaLuna KT88s driving the CLXs, it became all too apparent after a month of significant listening that 70W/ch just wasn't enough. I could readily hear the soft compression on dynamic peaks... peaks that were not window rattling by any stretch. I remember reading somewhere long ago (and am currently unable to locate on the web) that to properly recreate the power-envelope of a concert grand - at normal live instrument SPL - requires over 1000W. I think it was something like 1400W, but this was something I read many, many brain-cells ago so I could easily be wrong (I am confident it was over 1000W though). Given the exponential nature of power and SPL (perceived volume) in dBs, and that to achieve twice the volume of a 100W transient requires 1000W, it seems entirely reasonable to me that any system risks compression without sufficient reserve.

Of course compression is only one of many parameters, and with the highly revealing nature of the CLX, any of the other amplifier characteristics can be readily detected as well. So, while power is very important (IMO) it's certainly not the end-all.

Good luck with your search and decision!

 

[User211]

I was running the McIntosh MC402. I am using the McIntosh MC501,s for a short while on loan until I get the McIntosh MC601's installed this Wednesday. The MC501 monoblocks can be had for about $6000-6500 on audiogon used. They are very nice with the CLX's. I am sure there are alot of good amps out there to choose from.

I was more than a little perplexed yesterday when at a show. I was with the Apogee restorer I used, his brother, and another Duetta Sig owner. He was complaining about his MC501s - the meters were hitting the end stops and he even managed to get it to shutdown.

Even more confusing - I heard a pair of Calipers. expecting them to sound like my Duetta Sigs, only less so - smaller scale etc. They sounded nothing like them. Not even vaguely. They seem pretty happy with a Krell KSA50 driving them, and they are reputed as harder to drive than Duettas.

Go figure....

BTW: I haven't seen these, as the work PC blocks the site, but they are reportedly excellent pics of said show...

Scalford Hall - non-commercial Hi-Fi Wigwam forum Hi-Fi Show 2011 pics

 

[Wardsweb]

The only real way to determine what fits your audio palate would be to hear the actual amp(s) driving your speakers. This isn't always possible but having others tell you what they hear is only one piece of the puzzle. Not everyone hears or feels music the same way. You gather as much information as you can to help make an informed decision.

I ended up with Spread Spectrum Technology Ampzilla 2000 mono blocks to drive my CLS and then Prodigy. They have the capability required to drive the most demaning loads. They pushed more bass out of my CLS than any other amp I ever used, but they are not a one trick pony. With the Prodigy they are fast and articulate for music and still have plenty of headroom for home theater dynamics. They never appear thin, shrill or harsh on the high end for me.

 

[Bernard]

I have fueled the CLX's for nearly two years with Pass Labs XA-100.5's and a Pass Labs XP-20 preamp. Never looked back. IMO unless you listen at the ear bleed level you don't need more than 30 watts of class A power.

While I loved the sound of the PrimaLuna KT88s driving the CLXs, it became all too apparent after a month of significant listening that 70W/ch just wasn't enough.

Two very divergent points of view.

 

[User211]

Two very divergent points of view.

Indeed. Nothing adds up in this strange world. Wasn't Jeff happy with bigger Prima Lunas on his CLXs, I seem to remember?

 

[Ron]

I was more than a little perplexed yesterday when at a show. I was with the Apogee restorer I used, his brother, and another Duetta Sig owner. He was complaining about his MC501s - the meters were hitting the end stops and he even managed to get it to shutdown.

I do not know how that is possible. Something must be wrong with those MC501's, or he had them hooked up wrong. I am not sure how much power the Duetta's draw. Even when using my MC402 I never even got the power guard light flickering on my CLX's. Maybe once did I get it to flicker at ear bleeding sound levels. Never a shut down. With the MC501 we are talking 500 watts per channel, and the MC601 we are talking 600 watts per channel.

 

[Bernard]

Indeed. Nothing adds up in this strange world. Wasn't Jeff happy with bigger Prima Lunas on his CLXs, I seem to remember?

I don't think Prima Luna makes anything greater than 70 watts/channel, which is what Todd was using.

 

[tsv_1]

I don't think Prima Luna makes anything greater than 70 watts/channel, which is what Todd was using.

That's my understanding as well.

BTW, I place all the blame for my amp-swap squarely on the CLX. If they weren't so brutally honest, I may not have been motivated to "upsize".

 

[User211]

Here's the quote:

"tonepub
10-01-2009, 10:58 PM
I've had decent luck with the Prima Luna DiaLogue 8's on the 2 ohm tap and the Bat VK55se and 75 se on the 3 ohm tap.

Also, the Manley 250's...

Not terribly good luck (rolled off highs) with ARC VT100, McIntosh MC275 (same thing).

It's really a case by case thing..."

The only problem is there is no Dialogue 8... He "musta" meant the 7.

I'm assuming Todd tried the 2 Ohm tap and still wasn't happy.

Here's the whole thread: CLX with tube amps

 

[mact3333]

That's my understanding as well.

BTW, I place all the blame for my amp-swap squarely on the CLX. If they weren't so brutally honest, I may not have been motivated to "upsize".

Todd, so what did you upgrade to from a amp standpoint?...also, I am curious about your Wyredforsound DAC2...I am looking at that one...can it compete with the Weisses and Antelopes?...I current have PS Audio DL III.

Also, I have used tube gear with Aerius, Sequel II and CLX's and although the mids are smooth and airy, I found the bass and upper detail was compromised somewhat...can ya really go wrong with Pass?....

 

[tsv_1]

Here's the quote:

"tonepub
10-01-2009, 10:58 PM
I've had decent luck with the Prima Luna DiaLogue 8's on the 2 ohm tap and the Bat VK55se and 75 se on the 3 ohm tap.

Also, the Manley 250's...

Not terribly good luck (rolled off highs) with ARC VT100, McIntosh MC275 (same thing).

It's really a case by case thing..."

The only problem is there is no Dialogue 8... He "musta" meant the 7.

I'm assuming Todd tried the 2 Ohm tap and still wasn't happy.

Here's the whole thread: CLX with tube amps

Yes... being beer guy, I tried all the taps. Oh, I also tried all the transformer secondary winding taps (2,4, and 8 Ohm) of the Dialogue 7 amps. I actually preferred the 4 Ohm tap. The 8 Ohm tap seemed a little "loose" - i.e. didn't provide the authority I was looking for. The 2 Ohm tap seemed a little compressed, especially with peak transients. The 4 Ohm seemed like the best compromise. Let me add that these perceived "faults" were minor. The amps sound absolutely wonderful from any of the taps (none were unlistenable). I just found after time that 70W wasn't cutting it for me, in my room, with these speakers, playing the music I like at the levels I desire.

 

[Rich]

Two very divergent points of view.

Indeed. Nothing adds up in this strange world.

That's because of this:

I just found after time that 70W wasn't cutting it for me, in my room, with these speakers, playing the music I like at the levels I desire.

This hobby is music, room, equipment, and listener dependent. There are no hard and fast answers to any questions. Just lots of varying opinions and exceptions to supposed rules.

 

[tsv_1]

Todd, so what did you upgrade to from a amp standpoint?...also, I am curious about your Wyredforsound DAC2...I am looking at that one...can it compete with the Weisses and Antelopes?...I current have PS Audio DL III.

Also, I have used tube gear with Aerius, Sequel II and CLX's and although the mids are smooth and airy, I found the bass and upper detail was compromised somewhat...can ya really go wrong with Pass?....

I'm waiting on delivery of a pair of ModWright KWA-150SE amps that I will bridge to mono. These are rated to produce 650W/ch into 4 Ohms. If I have any compression issues while using these amps, it's either my hearing or it's the speakers.

On the W4S DAC2, I chose it for three reasons 1) it was within my budget, 2) it included features, great build quality, and DAC/analog outputs pushing state-of-the-art. It has also reviewed quite favorably compared to the Weiss at 6moons (don't know about the Antelopes?), and 3) I knew I wanted a DAC that has excellent jitter tolerance on it's S/PDIF inputs - which the DAC2 proclaims to possess - and from all indications, it performs very well handling the S/PDIF output of my Olive music server.

There are others here that also own the DAC2 and seem to like it (Churchill for one).

And yes, I do agree that the Pass is a safe bet. I already own Pass in my HT - so I was looking for another option just to keep things interesting. The ModWright seem to posses tube-like qualities while still maintaining an iron fist on the lows and good extension/air up top. All things I was looking for, so the checkbook now bears the scars.

Cheers

 

[Necrosuit]

That's because of this:



This hobby is music, room, equipment, and listener dependent. There are no hard and fast answers to any questions. Just lots of varying opinions and exceptions to supposed rules.

This is very true, but all the Q&A that I have asked in the past be it here or in person have lead me to my current system setup and It is the best yet!
the statement amp i am borrowing right now is simply amazing in detail, Im going to grab this amp and most likely the MBL 8011 Monos, play them side by side and make a decision. but we shall see....

 

[MPS]

considering 30W-70W means ~4dB difference in SPL, it's really not that surprising at all. Differences in listening environment and music styles and listening habits will all be huge variables.
30W class-A SS-amplifier will most likely double it's output to 4Ω to 60W and even more to 2Ω load where as 70W tube amplifier will more likely deliver pretty much equal power to all reasonable loads, 2-16Ω 50-100W. There will of course be exceptions...

 

[stuwee]

Wardsweb's Ampzilla 2000's make me drool!

I can't compete with the 'Big boys' ya'll have, I love the sound from my Yammie, strange class A curcuitry that just seems to work well with the load ML's present, very musical, seemless.

"Hyperbolic Conversion Amplification Circuit
This new kind of circuitry, developed by Yamaha, eliminates the only serious drawback of previous Class A operation amplifiers. These had to switch to non-linear class AB operation above a certain load current, causing a slight deterioration in the otherwise excellent sound quality. The new Hyperbolic Conversion Amplification Circuit does away with this problem, allowing your Yamaha MX-800/U to deliver superior performance constantly, without switching or cut-off, over its entire power range.

Advanced Power Supply Circuitry (APS)
An amplifier is only as good as its power supply = this simple truth has prompted Yamaha to develop the APS circuitry incorporated in your new MX-800/U. The problem with conventional power sources was their tendency to produce pronounced voltage ripples during medium to large amplitude music signals, particularly under low impedance loads, together with voltage fluctuations in the power transistors. APS solves this problem by providing an active power source that ensures stable voltage in the final transistor stage under all operating conditions, thus greatly improving power supply to the amplifier.
"

Hyperbol ad script or not, I like it :afro: