jumpers
- Thread starter d.ma
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Bernard
Well-known member
Why don't you make your own with high qualty spades (or lockable bananas) and heavy gauge wire? There are some companies that also make them (Cardas, I think, is one). If ML still supplies the same stuff as they did with their SL3s, they are poor quality stamped metal jumpers.
well yes,, i have homemade jumpers,, cables whit bananas,,just wanted the originals,,
i guess, the original is metal plates and not cabels,,, think that would look better,,?
for sound i dont think that matters so much,, or?
// Daniel
Kaboomnash
Well-known member
I ordered e-ticket jumpers before my vantages even arrived at my home. I am very unimpressed with the factory jumpers. I love my e-tickets!
Lee
Lee
I don't see why the stock jumper plates would sound better or worse than jumper cables. Most people believe that jumper cables sound better though. So if you constructed your jumpers well and used good spades or locking bananas, you are probably getting the best out your Vantages already.
Why, because they are not made of cryogenically-treated, palladium-coated silver with super-teflon bias-controlled insulation, of course.
This does seem to be a universal belief. I just avoided the whole issue by bi-wiring my Summits!
Heh, Heh. Well, yeah. Kind of. Actually, I run monoblocs, so the speaker cables are only three feet long. I wasn't really dissatisfied with the jumpers I had made, but since I was ordering new speaker cables anyway, I just decided to order them bi-wire. My logic is that running two lines of speaker cable in parallel from the amp to the woofer & panel is better for signal transmission than running one line to the panel with a jumper to the woofer (the jumper being unshielded and also made of an entirely different material -- my speaker cables are silver-based and the jumper was copper). It was never really a big concern, just one of those "why not go ahead and do it this way" kind of things. Perhaps some of the engineers on the forum can tell me if my logic makes sense or not.
It sounds great this way. Does it sound better than the jumpers or the stock plates? Who the hell knows? I never really did any big listening tests comparing the three methods, so I couldn't tell you. I just ordered the cables I wanted, broke them in an auditioned them in my system, and was happy with the sound and have been happy ever since so I haven't thought much about it until this thread popped up.
It sounds great this way. Does it sound better than the jumpers or the stock plates? Who the hell knows? I never really did any big listening tests comparing the three methods, so I couldn't tell you. I just ordered the cables I wanted, broke them in an auditioned them in my system, and was happy with the sound and have been happy ever since so I haven't thought much about it until this thread popped up.
Since you invited responses to logic I will not comment on cable break-in. :stop:
A lot has been written both in favor of and against bi-wiring. I consider the former baloney. Bi-wires or single wires with jumpers are electrically equivalent i.e. parallel connections.
For instance, my current speaker cables consist of two twisted 10 gauge pair per conductor. The pairs are joined at both ends, making them a single wire cable. They could easily be reconfigured into a bi-wire cable by splitting one end and adding bananas.
FWIW, I bought them and the jumper cables because they have low capacitance and look good. Like you I could not be bothered to switch back and forth between plates and jumpers. It sounded good before and still does after - fine. It's like putting special wax on your car. It adds finish but the car won't go faster. However the overall result is pleasing.
As far as combining silver cables and copper jumpers: they never touch. They will be connected via bananas, spades, or binding posts, all of which will be made of brass, or gold covered copper. This would be the least of my concerns.
Cable parameters such as capacitance and the quality of the connectors, shielding vs no shielding and so on can impact the sound. These parameters are a lot more important than the differences (if any exist) between single and bi-wire cables. Therefore bi-wiring should also not impact the sound in a negative manner.
So I would dismiss the matter from my mind again.
A lot has been written both in favor of and against bi-wiring. I consider the former baloney. Bi-wires or single wires with jumpers are electrically equivalent i.e. parallel connections.
For instance, my current speaker cables consist of two twisted 10 gauge pair per conductor. The pairs are joined at both ends, making them a single wire cable. They could easily be reconfigured into a bi-wire cable by splitting one end and adding bananas.
FWIW, I bought them and the jumper cables because they have low capacitance and look good. Like you I could not be bothered to switch back and forth between plates and jumpers. It sounded good before and still does after - fine. It's like putting special wax on your car. It adds finish but the car won't go faster. However the overall result is pleasing.
As far as combining silver cables and copper jumpers: they never touch. They will be connected via bananas, spades, or binding posts, all of which will be made of brass, or gold covered copper. This would be the least of my concerns.
Cable parameters such as capacitance and the quality of the connectors, shielding vs no shielding and so on can impact the sound. These parameters are a lot more important than the differences (if any exist) between single and bi-wire cables. Therefore bi-wiring should also not impact the sound in a negative manner.
So I would dismiss the matter from my mind again.
Yeah, but you know me. I can't resist digging deeper into irrelevant topics.
First of all, I appreciate your input and I can't say that I know enough about the subject to entirely agree or disagree with you. But my gut instinct is that you are correct and there is not enough difference in sound between the two to put too much thought into it.
But I do have a further question about what you said. Wouldn't running bi-wire give you different capacitance, inductance, and resistance to the cable than running single wire with jumpers? If so, wouldn't this potentially affect the sound (either positively or negatively)?
LOL. I would love to get your input on break-in and directionality of high end fuses and their impact on the sound in the thread on that subject.
Yes, that is quite possible, but not because one concept is better than the other. The point I was trying to make is that you can apply the same design criteria to a single wire concept, as exemplified by the wires I am currently using.Yeah, but you know me. I can't resist digging deeper into irrelevant topics.
First of all, I appreciate your input and I can't say that I know enough about the subject to entirely agree or disagree with you. But my gut instinct is that you are correct and there is not enough difference in sound between the two to put too much thought into it.
But I do have a further question about what you said. Wouldn't running bi-wire give you different capacitance, inductance, and resistance to the cable than running single wire with jumpers? If so, wouldn't this potentially affect the sound (either positively or negatively)?
If a cable designer decides to shift one electrical parameter to the extreme in favor of another, he can do so with single or bi-wires. Just think of Goertz' flat very low inductance single wire cables which also have extremely high capacitance.
In other words, bi-wiring has no implicit merits or demerits over single wiring. It depends on the implementation.
That old thread? Let's not wake the deadLOL. I would love to get your input on break-in and directionality of high end fuses and their impact on the sound in the thread on that subject.
. These fuses sell because the FUD principle works.bigtickets
Member
A story I heard
A few years back Sonus Faber conducted a test that deals with the subject matter of this thread. Now, i don't know all of the details because this was told to me by a B&W and Sonus Faber sales rep. They put a group of people in front of speakers that were single wired and had them listen. Then they put the same group in front of the same speakers (still single wired) and told them that they were bi-wired. The group said that they could hear the difference for the better. They then bi-wired the same speakers and told the group that they had hooked them back up with single wires. Obviously, the group said that they liked the sound better when the speakers were bi-wired. Now, I don't know how this would apply to the ML's but you would think that it would be the same. Has anybody else heard about this test?
A few years back Sonus Faber conducted a test that deals with the subject matter of this thread. Now, i don't know all of the details because this was told to me by a B&W and Sonus Faber sales rep. They put a group of people in front of speakers that were single wired and had them listen. Then they put the same group in front of the same speakers (still single wired) and told them that they were bi-wired. The group said that they could hear the difference for the better. They then bi-wired the same speakers and told the group that they had hooked them back up with single wires. Obviously, the group said that they liked the sound better when the speakers were bi-wired. Now, I don't know how this would apply to the ML's but you would think that it would be the same. Has anybody else heard about this test?
I haven't heard of that particular test before, but the results are exactly what I would suspect. I firmly believe that most of the major differences in sound people claim to hear from minor tweaks are purely psychosomatic. That is why I am a proponent of blind testing to evaluate things like cable differences and the effect of various tweaks.
Me too, Rich. My Summits are bi-wired with NBS Signature IIs.
Heh heh, I love this topic on pros and cons of bi-wiring. It's so controversial and one can argue till the cows come home and still get to nowhere.
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I once agreed with you on the blind testing issue, Rich. There are several reasons why I no longer consider blind testing as the only valid method. Insights gained during the last year demoted blind testing to, well, let's call it a healthy reality check.
The fact of the matter is they are so damn hard or even impossible to conduct under appropriate test conditions: at home, with my gear, without all those other people around. In my comfy chair, in the sweet spot (not 1 meter left/right and/or behind/in front of it); and with quick switches between candidates and level-matched volumes.
As far as your statement "I firmly believe that most of the major differences in sound people claim to hear from minor tweaks are purely psychosomatic." goes: YES, absolutely, no bout adoubt it, so do I!
But psycho-acoustics work both ways. The typical blind testing setups are simply not conducive to sharp audio perception. Cogito, ergo fidgeto.
The fact of the matter is they are so damn hard or even impossible to conduct under appropriate test conditions: at home, with my gear, without all those other people around. In my comfy chair, in the sweet spot (not 1 meter left/right and/or behind/in front of it); and with quick switches between candidates and level-matched volumes.
As far as your statement "I firmly believe that most of the major differences in sound people claim to hear from minor tweaks are purely psychosomatic." goes: YES, absolutely, no bout adoubt it, so do I!
But psycho-acoustics work both ways. The typical blind testing setups are simply not conducive to sharp audio perception. Cogito, ergo fidgeto.
Can't say I disagree with anything you wrote there. Blind testing certainly isn't the be/all end/all, and it is very difficult to conduct correctly.
