Integrated amplifier for Summit?

[pelleparafin]

Hello!

I have a system for home theater and music with following equipment:

Summit as front, Montage as surround, Cinema i, Depth, Denon 3808 as surround receiver.

The Denon is ok for HT, but for music i want a better amplifier. I am thinking about an integrated amplifier for music that i also can use as a power amplifier for HT with the Denon as pre.

I am looking at following models:

Hegel H200
Krell KAV400xi
Musical Fidelity A5.5

Also I wonder if digital amplifiers such as Lyngdorf TDAI 2200 can be an option. How is the combination of electrostatic speakers and digital amplifiers. The amplifier for the subs of Summit is digital as I understand...

The room correction of this is it better than the Audyssey in Denon?

I understand that separated pre and power amplifiers is maybe better, but my budget starts to be limited. Maybe I look at that in the future, but for now, an integrated amplifier with enough power at low impedance for the Summits.

P.

 

[slowGEEZR]

P. I have the Krell 400xi and it can power my Aerius to very loud clear levels. Since the Summits are more efficient, I don't see why it wouldn't do even better with them. The Krell has theater by pass, which may be important to you. Stereophile says the Krell has insufficient heat sinking for long, loud listening and the distortion goes up with the heat. Mine does get hot to the touch, but I don't hear any extra distortion and I have had no problems. It was a major step up from the Yamaha surround receiver I had been using. I can't comment on the other amps you listed. Good luck in your choice. There have been a few threads recently discussing integrateds.

 

[Nielsen]

The bass amplifier in Summit might be digital, but its in the electrostatic panel the impedance drops, and some digital amplifiers might not like this.
I tried a Cary integrated on my Aeon I, it didnt work at all, then I tried the Bryston B100 and I was in heaven. The Bryston also has a bypass, pluss the option of a D/A converter in case you want.

 

[M@rio]

Go for Krell. No contest.

 

[wallacefl]

:music: bryston 100

 

[Nielsen]

If you read norwegian, or even if you dont, here is a compilation of amps with pass through :
http://www.avforum.no/forum/receive...etrad-stereoforsterkere-prosessorinngang.html
http://www.audiophile.no/Publisering.asp?Id=435

 

[Gordon Gray]

If you can afford $3K +/-, check out Arcam.

Don't expect to find product on the Gon, it's that good.

GG

 

[pelleparafin]

Thanks for a lot of good advises.

My list of alternatives in now as follow:

Hegel H200 (interesting Norwegian alternative, have heard it, but not with ML)
Krell KAV400xi (Have heard it, but not with ML, looks like a safe choice?)
Musical Fidelity A5.5 (have heard the old A5 with Summit)
Plinius 9200 (Have not heard it)
Perreaux R200i (Have not heard it)
Bryston B100 (have not heard it, is 100W enough?)

All of them are rated 200W (except Bryston), I look for something for less than 4-5k. All of them looks like very good options, it is difficult to choose...

P.

 

[tonepub]

Here's another one to consider:

The Sim Audio Moon I-7...
Got one in for review and it is very nice indeed!

 

[Burke]

All of them are rated 200W (except Bryston), I look for something for less than 4-5k. All of them looks like very good options, it is difficult to choose...

P.

For $4K you can get the Sanders Sound System ESL amplifier (350wpc) and specially designed to drive a ESL load. Sounds great with the Summits. (ask Rich, music again or myself).

At that price point there are a lot of great amplifiers, it will be difficult to choose.

 

[gmartan]

Thanks for a lot of good advises.

My list of alternatives in now as follow:

Hegel H200 (interesting Norwegian alternative, have heard it, but not with ML)
Krell KAV400xi (Have heard it, but not with ML, looks like a safe choice?)
Musical Fidelity A5.5 (have heard the old A5 with Summit)
Plinius 9200 (Have not heard it)
Perreaux R200i (Have not heard it)
Bryston B100 (have not heard it, is 100W enough?)

All of them are rated 200W (except Bryston), I look for something for less than 4-5k. All of them looks like very good options, it is difficult to choose...

P.

The Summits like a lot of power in spite of their efficiency rating. While I am sorting out my main system I have a Unico hybrid integrated driving the Summits and it's very musical with lots of punch. You can roll the 12AU7 tubes in the pre-amp section to taylor the sound too. It's around $2000.

 

[Bernard]

Have you considered tubes?

 

[MiTT]

Have you considered tubes?

I was going to suggest something along those lines myself. Were it my money, and I needed to have an integrated amp, I would opt for the Balanced Audio Technology VK-300x. You can get it with either 6922 tubes or the 6H30 super tube. The output section is solid state, putting out 150W into 8ohms and 300W into 4ohms (and even 600W into a 2 ohm load!!!). It is eseentially the VK-31 pre-amp married to the VK-220 amplifier (with a little more output actually) in one chassis.

I've heard this thing on numerous occasions - I have a buddy who is driving Aerius i's with it, and it sounds wonderfull with the Martin Logans.

 

[pelleparafin]

I have been considering tubes, that is a very good option, but I was thinking to leave the search for tube amplifier for the future.

I have some friends that constructs their own tube amplifiers, and even with a standard model it is a lot of testing and listening to find the correct tubes to match the rest of the equipment. I agree that that is a part of the fun, but I will save this for the future.

For now I really look for a typical mainstream SS integrated amplifier that can solve my immediate needs, the the search for the last perfection I will do later.

With that said, the Balanced Audio Technology VK-300x and Unison Unico Se and 200 actually looks interesting. Can I also use them as power amplifier with my Denon as pre connected to AV bypass? And can tube amplifiers really go down to 0,7 ohm?

And the Sim Audio i-7 is added to my list... I almost put it in the list before.

But the one that now looks like the most interesting is the Sanders Sound System ESL amplifier. But as I understand, this in not an integrated amplifier, only a power with a price of 4k. Then comes the pre, that has a AV bypass, also with a price of 4k. Maybe I should by the power first, and later by the pre?

...HELP! My list is getting longer and longer, please tell me that some of my options are not good. Anyone with bad experience with some of them?

P.

 

[SteveInNC]

A couple of us run the MF A5 Integrated. Mine powers Ascent i, using a Denon 3808 as a front end. It easily powers the Ascents, so I would think that Summits wouldn't be a problem. MF has serious current-handling, something like 70 amps peak-to-peak, which also helps control hard loads like panels. I got my A5 on Audiogon for $US1700 used, in 9+ condition. It does have HT bypass, which is how I run mine for home theater.

 

[MiTT]

I have been considering tubes, that is a very good option, but I was thinking to leave the search for tube amplifier for the future.

I have some friends that constructs their own tube amplifiers, and even with a standard model it is a lot of testing and listening to find the correct tubes to match the rest of the equipment. I agree that that is a part of the fun, but I will save this for the future.

For now I really look for a typical mainstream SS integrated amplifier that can solve my immediate needs, the the search for the last perfection I will do later.

With that said, the Balanced Audio Technology VK-300x and Unison Unico Se and 200 actually looks interesting. Can I also use them as power amplifier with my Denon as pre connected to AV bypass? And can tube amplifiers really go down to 0,7 ohm?

And the Sim Audio i-7 is added to my list... I almost put it in the list before.

But the one that now looks like the most interesting is the Sanders Sound System ESL amplifier. But as I understand, this in not an integrated amplifier, only a power with a price of 4k. Then comes the pre, that has a AV bypass, also with a price of 4k. Maybe I should by the power first, and later by the pre?

...HELP! My list is getting longer and longer, please tell me that some of my options are not good. Anyone with bad experience with some of them?

P.

The BAT is actually a full intergrated amp with a tube pre-amp section and solid state power amp section. It has an HT bypass mode that can be assigned to any of the inputs you choose. I really recommend that you listen to it if you have any opportunity to do so. Don't be afraid of tubes, especially in a pre-amp. I've had the same 6H30 tubes in my pre-amp for nearly 10 years with absolutely no degredation.

 

[Bernard]

I've had the same 6H30 tubes in my pre-amp for nearly 10 years with absolutely no degredation.

Tim, I used to think the same thing, until I changed the tubes in my preamp; degredation creeps up on you slowly. Admittedly the replacements were from a different tube manufacturer.

 

[gmartan]

Unico

I have been considering tubes, that is a very good option, but I was thinking to leave the search for tube amplifier for the future.

I have some friends that constructs their own tube amplifiers, and even with a standard model it is a lot of testing and listening to find the correct tubes to match the rest of the equipment. I agree that that is a part of the fun, but I will save this for the future.

For now I really look for a typical mainstream SS integrated amplifier that can solve my immediate needs, the the search for the last perfection I will do later.

With that said, the Balanced Audio Technology VK-300x and Unison Unico Se and 200 actually looks interesting. Can I also use them as power amplifier with my Denon as pre connected to AV bypass? And can tube amplifiers really go down to 0,7 ohm?

And the Sim Audio i-7 is added to my list... I almost put it in the list before.

But the one that now looks like the most interesting is the Sanders Sound System ESL amplifier. But as I understand, this in not an integrated amplifier, only a power with a price of 4k. Then comes the pre, that has a AV bypass, also with a price of 4k. Maybe I should by the power first, and later by the pre?

...HELP! My list is getting longer and longer, please tell me that some of my options are not good. Anyone with bad experience with some of them?

P.

While redoing my main stereo system I am using the standard Unico which uses 12AU7 tubes for PRE and a single pair of Mosfets for the PWR section which is rated at 80 Watts. The stock tubes have good bass and a nice liquid midrange but the higher frequencies are somewhat muted. I lucked into a pair of old Heath Mullard 12AU7 tubes which provided nicely extended high frequencies while maintaining the other virtues. It sounds really fine with my Summits. Of course, they are still beat by $12K worth of separates and some $6K integrated amps I have heard although mostly in their ability to control the bass. There is no bypass or unity gain input.

 

[MiTT]

Tim, I used to think the same thing, until I changed the tubes in my preamp; degredation creeps up on you slowly. Admittedly the replacements were from a different tube manufacturer.

When I had the unit converted from VK-30SE status to VK-31SE I asked them to test the tubes. Vicktor told me that they were essentially "as new". Just to be safe I ordered another set and I've swapped back and forth just to see for myself and there was no difference in sound quality. Vicktor says he really under drives the 6H30's so they should last 10,000 hours, so I can understand why I didn't hear anything different.