Hi-Fi Systems And Financial Resource Allocation

[User211]

I think it was John Bamford who stated in a recent issue of Hi-Fi News that if he was going to spend £10,000 ($16,000) on a new system, he'd allocate 85% of it to the speakers.

Whilst I think speakers have the most profound affect of any component in the chain on the overall sonic signature of a system, I'm not sure I subscribe entirely to John's philosophy.

So, where do your priorities lie? My feeling is, after swapping a lot of amps in/out of my system, is that they too have a pretty profound effect. More so that digital sources - at least ones not adopting very strange sounding output stages.

I think my priority list for budget alocation, based simply on my own experiences, runs something like this.

1) Speakers / amps / vinyl souce very approximately equal at guesstimate new retail prices.
4) Digital source.
5) Other sources.

I'm not claiming this is "right", and when it comes to it, I'm sure adhering to Mr Bamford's philosophy could produce a very competent system, especially with the good value class D amps provide these days (though I have not ultimately found any that are more to my taste in the context of my own system than the amps I currently own).

Also, to my mind, dropping vinyl from the replay chain makes the 85% allocation on speakers far more viable. Additionally, in my experience, some relatively inexpensive digital sources seem to produce results that are comparable and sometimes better than others costing many times more.

So, what are your thoughts on the matter?

 

[Bernard]

Justin, I think Ivor Tiefenbrunn said it all, with his "Garbage In, Garbage Out" statement. If you allocate 85% ($13,600) to speakers, there's precious little left ($2,400) to allocate to source, amplifier (you would have to buy an integrated) and cables. There is also the question of what amplifier would be adequate. That speaker budget is getting into Summit X territory, and I'm sure that you'd be hard-pressed to buy an adequate integrated to drive it.

Even if you give the digit to vinyl that 85% is not viable. I don't think that the solution is in percentages, unless you have a few hundred thousand dollars to spend. A Moody Blues album title comes to mind - "A Question of Balance". It's a precarious balancing act; you want the best source possible, but without depleting the funds for the other stuff.

It's an iterative process. Select a good source, then select the rest. You may have to go back and get a cheaper source, etc.

 

[Len44]

Even if you give the digit to vinyl that 85% is not viable. I don't think that the solution is in percentages, unless you have a few hundred thousand dollars to spend. A Moody Blues album title comes to mind - "A Question of Balance". It's a precarious balancing act; you want the best source possible, but without depleting the funds for the other stuff.

It is indeed a "precarious balancing act," as you mention. One's priorities will quite likely be different from that of others. My own would be:

1. Speakers
2. Amplification
3. Source (Digital)
4. Source (Vinyl)
5. Speaker Wires / Interconnects
6. Power Conditioning / Protection
7. Other / Etc / More / Tweaks / It goes on and on...

It's an iterative process. Select a good source, then select the rest. You may have to go back and get a cheaper source, etc.

And sometimes an irritating one as well!

 

[FOUNTAIN]

This is a very good topic, and one new comers will most definitely appreciate as they buy into their first new system. However, it is also beneficial to us who have been around the block a time or two as we evaluate our purchasing decisions.

Just recently I stumbled across this new eBook by Richard Hardesty and bought it for $10. It covers this discussion in great detail along with giving his well thought out reasons as to why he places emphasis in certain areas without ignoring any of them. I have read several "Journals" by Richard and found them to be quite informative. While some of the information contained in his new book is similar, he has focused more on the subject at hand and expanded it quite a bit. Check it out for a good read.

I am currently reading his second book, "How to choose loudspeakers". He makes some interesting observations in both books, and the good part is you can either take his advice or blaze your own path. At least you will know what opposing viewpoints there are on this subject and his rationale. Here is a link to the book I am referring too:

"How to allocate your Audio Budget"

http://www.auriclepublishing.com/page6.html

Glen

 

[eknuds01]

I agree with speakers and then amplification followed closely by the source AND source material.

But I would then consider speaker placement and room treatments before cables, spikes, etc. Unless you have a very odd room or it's huge, a few hundred bucks spend on some room treatments may do wonders for your system.

Erik

 

[amey01]

I don't think you can say. You can't rank them either.

It depends on the system in question. That is why synergy is so important.

Everyone has their priorities to get a sound to their liking.

If for instance, you like ML speakers, then you're going to have to spend a good chunk of your budget on amplification. Because 'stats demand good, stable amplification. I don't know many of us who have sunk 85% into our speakers!

But to to the Acapella forum (or some other eminently efficient speaker) and you might find otherwise.

Similarly, a cheap but boutique source might sound like magic connected to a good, high-impedance loaded preamp, but if you've got an inexpensive preamp you might conclude that "you've got to spend big bucks on the digital source".

All components interact with what is around them and have requirements to get them working correctly. It also depends on your taste and preferences.

In my system, yes - the speakers are the single most expensive component. But in the system as a whole, they are well less than 50% of the budget.

 

[Bernard]

In my system, yes - the speakers are the single most expensive component. But in the system as a whole, they are well less than 50% of the budget.

In my system the TT/arm/cartridge combo is the "single" most expensive component. And yes, well less than 50% of the budget.

 

[MOON]

I don't feel any one peice of a system is more important than the other. Heck, there all important.Your system is only as good as it's weakest component.

I upgrade periodically when funds are available.I like my Odyssey's and have no plans to upgrade to the newer Logans. My upgrade path was cdp, pre amp and this year later on mono amps.

The only reason I went in that order was the price was higher each time per component.My speakers, I bought used for $4500 in relation to my last purchase being my pre amp at $7500 US new. I don't beleive in the old saying that speakers are the most important, although Dave Wilson would argue likewise.

Cheers, Greg

 

[MOON]

I forgot to mention that after adding 4(16x78inch) ASC tube traps last year, I would have probably done room treating first with a system of more modest components. It did make that much of a difference.

Cheers, Greg

 

[amey01]

Of course, the room is the biggest contributing factor to sound, but unfortunately it is one that we have least control over. If we get some spare cash, we can't just go out and say "I'm going to get a new room today".

 

[Bernard]

I forgot to mention that after adding 4(16x78inch) ASC tube traps last year, I would have probably done room treating first with a system of more modest components. It did make that much of a difference.

Cheers, Greg

A while ago I asked ASC for a quote for 5 ft tall Tube Traps, and the guy who responded tried to dissuade me from ordering the 5 ft ones, saying that they are difficult to build (and expensive) due to raw material limitations, and that I should order the 4 ft ones instead. I thought it was really strange, especially since you have larger ones, and I have seen pictures of large ones.

Finances did not permit their purchase.

 

[User211]

Of course, the room is the biggest contributing factor to sound, but unfortunately it is one that we have least control over. If we get some spare cash, we can't just go out and say "I'm going to get a new room today".

What are you saying here? That the room is more important than the loudspeakers/system within it? Or merely that outside of the scope of the loudspeakers/system, the room is the biggest influence?

You can do a lot with room acoustics, as JonFo would testament.

Please clarify what you mean here, cos I'm curious about what you're thinking, Adam.

 

[MOON]

A while ago I asked ASC for a quote for 5 ft tall Tube Traps, and the guy who responded tried to dissuade me from ordering the 5 ft ones, saying that they are difficult to build (and expensive) due to raw material limitations, and that I should order the 4 ft ones instead. I thought it was really strange, especially since you have larger ones, and I have seen pictures of large ones.

Finances did not permit their purchase.

Hi Bernard,

The imformation ASC gave you was correct. Any tube trap over 4 ft high is a custom built order.My 78 inch high traps cost $1000 each new. I would suggest looking on Audiogon or www.canuckaudiomart.com for them. They do come up on the Canadian site.

Bernard - This store in Toronto carries ASC http://www.thoaudiophile.com/

Mine were on audiogon, the seller was in Ontario(Oakville) I got the 4 traps for $2000, all mint with original boxes,They were shipped from ASC and went directly into the sellers dedicated room. The sale was due to a divorce.

All the sellers equipment was for sale, the house had already been sold with a custom designed soundroom by Rives Audio, ouch!!

 

[Bernard]

Greg, my point was that ASC seemed to not want to do custom orders. Sorry to hijack your thread, Justin, but that should be it.

 

[amey01]

What are you saying here? That the room is more important than the loudspeakers/system within it? Or merely that outside of the scope of the loudspeakers/system, the room is the biggest influence?

You can do a lot with room acoustics, as JonFo would testament.

Please clarify what you mean here, cos I'm curious about what you're thinking, Adam.

I'm saying that the single most important influence on the sound you hear is the room. That's right - more important than the system within it. If you doubt me, try setting up your Aps in the bathroom and tell me how satisfying it is.

 

[Hocky]

I don't tend to have a preference toward expensive amps or sources and even I think that 85/15 is not reasonable. lol

 

[User211]

I'm saying that the single most important influence on the sound you hear is the room. That's right - more important than the system within it. If you doubt me, try setting up your Aps in the bathroom and tell me how satisfying it is.

OK I think you're completely wrong. I'll justify it when I have the time. Could be fun

 

[rdnzl999]

I'm saying that the single most important influence on the sound you hear is the room. That's right - more important than the system within it. If you doubt me, try setting up your Aps in the bathroom and tell me how satisfying it is.

Hmm...

Mine's pretty big...

 

[amey01]

Hmm...

Mine's pretty big...

Do you think you'll get good sound in there?

 

[Bernard]

Do you think you'll get good sound in there?

Maybe with the right acoustical treatment ?