Help with Depth sub setup

[Kevin]

I have a new Depth sub added to my system as of last night to go with a set of Aeon speakers. I would like to add more speakers in the future for surround sound, but I need to wait to add something new due to the sizeable dent that ML's put in my pocket. My speakers are run from an Onkyo TX-SR800. I have a couple of questions about getting the best sound I can from my new sub. I wish I could experiment a bit more with the subs placement, unfortunately, my room layout only allows for the sub to be placed in a corner. The only placement tweak I can really give it is how far from the corner it sits, but hopefully that will work out ok for me. My main question concerns my receiver speaker setting. Should I have my Aeons set as large or small speakers under the speaker configurations of the reciever? I have my sub connected in the 2 channel mode, which the depth manuel says allows the sub to handle the cross over frequency. If my main speakers are left as large, does that mean that the speakers are still producing the same amount of bass as if I hadn't added the sub? If that's true, I would think they would be sort of competing against the sub to produce the bass, and so the bass would be a bit muddled. I love music, and better still, I love good music coming from great speakers, but I'm a bit naive when it comes to the technical aspects, so I'm hoping you all can help me. Any other tips that might not be included in the Depth's manuel to help me get the best sound? Unfortunately, I don't have a local ML dealer anymore to make purchases from and get setup advice. Thanks.

 

[Cherian]

If you are using the line level in then you can use the High Pass ouptut filter of the Depth. This filter allows the option of NONE, 40Hz or 70Hz. You can then feed line level out from your depth output to a 2 channel amp and then from the amp to the speakers. However this means using the receiver as a pre-amp and investing in a 2 channel amp.

The second option is to use the receiver as the crossover and using the subwoofer out from the receiver to the depth LFE input, then set your front speakers to small.

 

[Kevin]

Cherian- I'm using the line level in, which the manual says makes the low pass filter on the sub active. I can't invest in another piece of equipment at the current time, so I need to make do with what I have. I currently have the low pass filter set at 35. So for my current situation, should I set my main speakers (Aeons) to small?

 

[MOON]

Hi Kevin,

I found the best placement for my depth sub was right in the middle between my odyessey's. I tried various positions and this was the best. I do plan on adding another depth at some point which would require going through the process again.

 

[Cherian]

No, don't sent your Main speakrs to small. If you set your front speakers to small you will turn on your receiver crossover. You should run your front large and set your depth crossover to 35 or 45Hz. Play with the Depth settings till you find something you like. Keep your main speakers set to large.

good luck.

 

[Kevin]

Thanks. I guess I'm not understanding how the cross over frequency technology works. I currently have the sub low pass cross over set at 35. I was thinking that this means that the sub would only play those frequencies below 35hz, but that my main speakers if left at 'large' would still be playing there full range. Is this wrong? If so, can someone explain exactly what setting the low pass filter at 35hz is doing, assuming that I'm not making any changes on the receiver and leaving the main speaker setting set at large? Thanks.

 

[Cherian]

Thanks. I guess I'm not understanding how the cross over frequency technology works. I currently have the sub low pass cross over set at 35. I was thinking that this means that the sub would only play those frequencies below 35hz, but that my main speakers if left at 'large' would still be playing there full range. Is this wrong? If so, can someone explain exactly what setting the low pass filter at 35hz is doing, assuming that I'm not making any changes on the receiver and leaving the main speaker setting set at large? Thanks.

Hello Kevine,

Everything you state above is correct. If you want to use the crossover built into the the Depth then you have to set the fronts to large. This is the only way the depth will get all of the siginal information it needs. Then the depth will use it's internal filter to remove any frequencies above 35Hz (if set at 35Hz). If you set the front speakers to small then the receiver is doing the crossover work and the depth will not get the frequencies it needs because the receiver has filtered them out. You will then have to hook the depth to the sub out of the receiver. You will need to connect to the LFE in of the depth. The LFE in of the depth by-passes the internal depth crossover.

Me I would go with the speakers set to large and sending the line level left and right inputs to the depth. Set the depth to 45Hz because the Aeons do not play below 43Hz.

 

[Kevin]

Thanks for taking the time to explain that Cherian. I now have a follow up question based upon this information. I was always disappointed with the Aeons bottom range, particulary on music that has deep heavy bass. I always sensed that the sound, such as the heart beat in the opening of Dark Side of the Moon (if you're familier), sounded like it was almost hard on the speaker to produce. I don't listen to music very loud, so I don't think it was me pushing the speaker past what I would think would be it's limit, particulary given the price! So if the the main speakers are still getting the signal to play the deep bass that it doesn't do very well, won't that muddle my sound quality since it is still struggling on those low notes? If so, what would be the best remedy to fix it? Also, if I'm playing music with deep bass and I'm mainly hearing the Depth producing the low notes over the Aeons, I'm afraid that I won't know the Aeons are struggling and I might be doing damage to it's woofer. Would that be possible?

 

[Cherian]

This is hard to fix with a receiver. The muddy bass may be a function of the room. Who knows room treatments may help clean up the bass. Maybe a preamp, active crossover and bi-amp the speakers may help you take better control. Again it may be the room.

These are issues I’m dealing with as well. No one magic bullet when it comes to bass management. Experiment till you find a sound you can live with.

 

[Kevin]

Thanks for all of your advice! I just wanted to make sure I was getting the most bang for my buck with my current setup. Now I'll just need to start saving again for my next piece of equipment, it's definitely a work in progress. Thanks again.

 

[preston]

Kevin,

I have posted a few comments relating to sub integration today; please check them out. Your sub and system will sound terrible (e.g. better without the sub) unless you really take the time to properly do set up.

This is an excellent sub, so before dumping money into other stuff, get the set up sorted out.

 

[cyclone]

If you are not using spikes with the Depth try them that might firm up the bass.

 

[Kevin]

Thanks Preston, I'll definitely check it out. My system is definitely sounding better with the added sub, not only the bass sounds better but the the mids and highs even to my ears sound much improved. I am using the spikes that came with the sub.

 

[JonFo]

Kevin,

I’m going to contradict my friend Cherian, as I believe he’s thinking of a preamp – sub –amp – speakers scenario.
You have a receiver – sub – speakers setup.

The question of where the crossover should be in YOUR setup is the key to my following advice.

With just those three components, the logical place for the crossover is in the receiver. As you say you plan to go surround in the future, you will be using the Receivers crossover anyway.

The Onkyo you have unfortunately uses a global (applies to all speakers) crossover. So you’ll want to balance the selected crossover point between wanting to use as low a point as possible with a point that realistically reflects the center and surround speaker capabilities.

As a reasonable starting place, I’m going to suggest your set the receivers crossover to 60Hz.

Set the mains to small (this might happen anyway once you set the crossover, but check). You want the bass redirected to the sub.

Having the mains as Large would mean you are getting double the bass below the crossover region, and not relive you MartinLogans from trying to reproduce the bass. We touched on why over in the bass boom thread.

For the Sub, you take the LFE (or Sub) output of the Onyyo and feed it to the LFE in on the depth.
Essentially, follow the “Multichannel Mode” settings on page 10 of the manual.

This will results in:
The Aeons having better mid-bass performance
The Sub handling everything from 60hz down for all channels


As for placement, please try and get it away from the corner as much as possible, as all that does is reinforce certain frequencies and muddies the sound.