Got the visit of Bernard.

[bonzo]

Justin, I think it's great that you're willing to give it another chance.. Let us know how it turns out.

When I was listening to Roberto's system he made a change that I saw, but heard no difference; this was with three Mooks on a stand. He then made a change again that I saw, but I heard no difference. We went through this a few times; each time I could hear no difference. He then told me what to listen for, and then I thought I might have heard a subtle difference, but was unsure. Would I buy them for that application? Not from what I heard, but they do make a difference when on my CDP.

Hi I assume you are referring to the discs. What about the resonators? The change from that is a lot

 

[Bernard]

Hi I assume you are referring to the discs. What about the resonators? The change from that is a lot

Yes, the disks. The resonators made a huge difference. It was a "wow" moment, per one of my previous posts. I would buy them in a flash.

 

[Bernard]

Whoa - hang on! USB v Coax is very different indeed!

One is a pure data transfer medium, and the other is a clocked / audio transfer medium. Very different.

Adam, so what you are saying, in effect, is that coax cables CAN make a difference, correct? Others on this forum over the years have said that there is no way digital cables can make a difference. Care to comment?

 

[User211]

Justin, I think it's great that you're willing to give it another chance.. Let us know how it turns out.

When I was listening to Roberto's system he made a change that I saw, but heard no difference; this was with three Mooks on a stand. He then made a change again that I saw, but I heard no difference. We went through this a few times; each time I could hear no difference. He then told me what to listen for, and then I thought I might have heard a subtle difference, but was unsure. Would I buy them for that application? Not from what I heard, but they do make a difference when on my CDP.

Huh? I am not Bernard but I am willing to prove the change they make is fully related to suggestion. The "victims' in our test all heard a change when suggesting the soundstage changed size by moving the disks in and out.

Yet when they could not see the disks being moved for certain they completely failed.

End of story.

I'll bet huge sums of money if anyone wants to come round with a set if disks and pass that test. Well into the £1000s.

 

[Bernard]

Huh? I am not Bernard but I am willing to prove the change they make is fully related to suggestion. The "victims' in our test all heard a change when suggesting the soundstage changed size by moving the disks in and out.

Yet when they could not see the disks being moved for certain they completely failed.

End of story.

I'll bet huge sums of money if anyone wants to come round with a set if disks and pass that test. Well into the £1000s.

Justin, you missed my point....I SAW the disks being moved, but could not hear any change. This happened multiple times.

 

[User211]

I'm confused by your posts Bernard. Why did you say: "I did hear the differences Roberto mentioned: - he was able to shift images by shifting the Shun Mooks" and other supporting statements?

 

[Bernard]

I'm confused by your posts Bernard. Why did you say: "I did hear the differences Roberto mentioned: - he was able to shift images by shifting the Shun Mooks" and other supporting statements?

Sorry for the confusion. I was discussing two different things. Let me clarify:

When Roberto shifted one set of Shun Mooks, which were near the left speaker, I was able to hear the image shift he described. Granted, I could see it.

However, when he shifted another set next to me, I could hear no difference at all.

 

[bonzo]

Huh? I am not Bernard but I am willing to prove the change they make is fully related to suggestion. The "victims' in our test all heard a change when suggesting the soundstage changed size by moving the disks in and out.

Yet when they could not see the disks being moved for certain they completely failed.

End of story.

I'll bet huge sums of money if anyone wants to come round with a set if disks and pass that test. Well into the £1000s.

Hi Justin, I was not made any suggestions by the distributor. Also, for example a guy names Bill I recommended it to, has heard things in his system with the discs different from what I have heard, again showing no suggestion. I can go on. So you are just picking on confirmation bias here, when you see something that confirms why we here it and you don't, you are jumping on that. Maybe that is bias?

 

[bonzo]

Sorry for the confusion. I was discussing two different things. Let me clarify:

When Roberto shifted one set of Shun Mooks, which were near the left speaker, I was able to hear the image shift he described. Granted, I could see it.

However, when he shifted another set next to me, I could hear no difference at all.

So bernard is saying that he could hear the difference on one set and not on another. Both sighted

 

[User211]

Hi Justin, I was not made any suggestions by the distributor. Also, for example a guy names Bill I recommended it to, has heard things in his system with the discs different from what I have heard, again showing no suggestion. I can go on. So you are just picking on confirmation bias here, when you see something that confirms why we here it and you don't, you are jumping on that. Maybe that is bias?

No I am not seeking confrontation - just setting a challenge

 

[Bernard]

No I am not seeking confrontation - just setting a challenge

I took your post in that spirit - a challenge. The zeroes in the bet made my eyes light up

 

[Bernard]

Forgetting for a moment about all this tweaking and cable crap, and returning to what this hobby is all about (the music, not the equipment): when I was in Costa Rica I asked Roberto if there were any local musicians whose CDs he would recommend, one he mentioned was a guy called Manuel Obregón. I found one called "Piano Malango". It's a great live CD that was recorded in the national theatre in San Jose; the recording is good to boot.

It's a very lively (not soulful) jazz session played on a piano, flute, sax, drums, and some local instruments. I'm really enjoying it. Wish I were at that session. It's available on Amazon. Definitely recommended. The imaging is great, and I do have Martin Logan speakers. Those of you with non-Logans may not enjoy it as much . Gordon Gray, go out and buy it my friend, even though you have strayed from the ML fold.

At a grocery store I picked up a CD (not a Señor Herrera recommendation) as the cover caught my eye: three Latina chicas, one of them holding a cello (indicating that it's probably not noisy). The group is called "De Plata". I listened to it briefly at Roberto's. Sounded promising.....Spanish vocals.

 

[amey01]

Adam, so what you are saying, in effect, is that coax cables CAN make a difference, correct? Others on this forum over the years have said that there is no way digital cables can make a difference. Care to comment?

Yes, correct - I am saying that COAX cables can make a difference, albeit little as it may be.

I am aware of those that say there is no difference, but I don't necessarily agree.

USB and Coax operate on very different principles - coax is clocked audio data. It operates at a set clock rate and there are no checks and balances at the receiving end to ensure the data is received bitperfect. The sending device just sends the data off and is done with it - this is controlled by the sending device and if all/some/none of the data make it to the other end then no corrective action is taken. If that data is not clocked accurately, or if there are reflections on the link, then yes - there could conceivably be induced jitter or bit errors (error correction aside).

Most modern DACs however employ error correction and buffer and re-clock the data so in most cases the difference would be small, if at all. But as I said - the coax cable could conceivably affect the sound. It is source and DAC dependent whether you do hear a difference or not.

USB is a whole different beast. It works on the asynchronous principle, and the data sent down the USB link is unclocked, pure data. Due to the USB transfer mode used by an asynchronous, there are checks and re-communication employed to ensure / guarantee that the data received by the DAC is correct.

I'll go further - quite simply, the DAC can not receive the data unless it is correct/bitperfect. Just like when you transfer a file to a hard disk.

You simply can not get errors unless something is wrong. The DAC then buffers that input, clocks the data (it is delivered unclocked) and sends it to the converting modules. The sound is wholly dependent on the DAC itself and can in no way be impacted by the type of USB cable used - as much as the analogue-world audiophile might want to think otherwise.

 

[Bernard]

Adam, I'm sure it won't surprise you when I say I have heard differences between digital coax cables. My evaluation consisted of my friendly ML dealer lending me cables for a week, no cash involved, and no pressure. And no, it was not blind. And if I have to concentrate intensely to hear subtle differences, I'm not interested in the expensive cable.

 

[amey01]

Adam, I'm sure it won't surprise you when I say I have heard differences between digital coax cables. My evaluation consisted of my friendly ML dealer lending me cables for a week, no cash involved, and no pressure. And no, it was not blind. And if I have to concentrate intensely to hear subtle differences, I'm not interested in the expensive cable.

It doesn't surprise me at all. However I would be surprised if you continue to hear those differences with your M-DAC as it buffers the input and re-clocks the incoming signal, so the clock accuracy is dictated wholly by the DAC and has nothing to do with what might come before it. You'll either get "ERROR" (if the incoming signal is not getting through), or music (if everything works as planned).

 

[bonzo]

Adam, I'm sure it won't surprise you when I say I have heard differences between digital coax cables. My evaluation consisted of my friendly ML dealer lending me cables for a week, no cash involved, and no pressure. And no, it was not blind. And if I have to concentrate intensely to hear subtle differences, I'm not interested in the expensive cable.

Big difference between different SPDIF cables from my Sony SACD to Lampi, no audible difference when transport was changed to an Aurender

 

[Bernard]

Big difference between different SPDIF cables from my Sony SACD to Lampi, no audible difference when transport was changed to an Aurender

That's really curious.

 

[bonzo]

That's really curious.

HI Bernard, as I just posted on my Lampi vs Trinity thread, compared the Totaldac usb vs the audioquest diamond (which I own). The Audioquest has a silver sheen, it gives a brighter feel (which initially I mistook for details). The totaldac usb did not have that sheen, was weightier because of more meat at the bottom, so sounded fuller and more organic. More easy to listen to. Preferred that. Not a big difference, and two of us listening to it had the same interpretation

 

[amey01]

Forgive me, but I am perplexed. Out of curosity, I looked at the TotalDAC website.

I confess - I'm perplexed ...... I really am perplexed.

Let's look at some of their quotes from http://www.totaldac.com/USB_cable-eng.htm

exclusivity which improves the sound of any DAC or music server

Any DAC or server. Really? Any DAC at all?

embeds high performance filters to suppress digital pollutions coming from the computer or the music server.

Now come on. What are these "digital pollutions"? The only "digital pollutions" I know of coming out of a computer are the music itself for crying out loud! Is this cable filtering out the music perhaps? What then, is it filtering?

Can you also hear the problems created by the fact that your digital system is now operating out of spec?

They have built this filter, so surely they can explain in some sort of way what it is doing. Surely?

The sound is then more natural, more transparent and without harshness

What has it done then to make it this way?

It can even be used to connect a CD-drive to a computer a rip CDs with a better sound.

Well now I've heard everything.

Does anyone here actually believe that?

It is obviously bit perfect.

Eureka!! For the amount you are charging, I'm glad it is!!

So what is this cable doing then?

Oh.... and please - if you answer only one question, let it be this one. If the cable is "obviously bitperfect", how can it rip CDs "with a better sound"?

The filter/cable is made of more than 30 components

Don't most audiophiles want simplicity in their singal paths? 30 components in a simple point-to-point cable?

So much for "straight wire with gain". This is "straight wire with more than 30 components!!!

Can you also hear how the 30 components rob the music of its life and place a veil over the music?

Green pens are cheaper and Stereophile used to rave about green pens. Krell even produced a CD player that bathed the transport in green light.

Remind me. Why don't modern transports do this any more?

Haven't we forgotten this "unequovical" improvement to our digital listening?

 

[bonzo]

Why don't you try listening? Takes less time than to visit that website and type out that post