Flowers and Bunnies (and my experience with Logans)

[IWalker]

Ok, but here's what I don't get. I know that my Yammy is set to run 6-8 ohm speakers. So to compensate for the 2 ohm ML's, I just double-wire the speakers so that they're hooked up to my front and rear channels. That gets around the impedance problem and brings the load down to 3 ohms, which should be close enough for a comparison with the Infinitys. Any way to test how much distortion I'm getting at that level?

You're wiring from both front and rear channels? Generally, unless you're in some sort of processing mode, you're not getting the same output from those channels...so it would sound terrible.

See if you can borrow an amp (and ideally a cd player) from the shop, to see if you think the same. The receiver won't cut it (and will likely be bad for the speaker, due to HF clipping)

If you have a budget, and would like some help planning out a system based off of it, we'd be happy to help. If it's lower than what seems like a real ML budget, we can recommend other options as well.

If you don't mind me asking...what are they asking for the MLs you're auditioning?

 

[sleepysurf]

http://www.earclear.com/

Go for the MasterBlaster, in any case.

Lugano, that's a hoot! Can't believe they are selling what looks to be a 60ml syringe, for $70!

Heck, I'll make one with a battery-powered blue light at the tip, and sell it as an "audiophile-grade" blaster for $150!

 

[jtwrace]

Lugano, that's a hoot! Can't believe they are selling what looks to be a 60ml syringe, for $70!

Heck, I'll make one with a battery-powered blue light at the tip, and sell it as an "audiophile-grade" blaster for $150!

when do you want to start production?

 

[Munster]

How many times have I read " as proof my wife,girlfriend etc. heard it too"

For so many this seems to Verify everything they have said. I just don't get

it,but I do chuckle every time I read it.

 

[Charliemike]

Do you guys really think the amp could have that much of an effect? The Yammy is a pretty high-end amp (I'm sure not compared to some of the equipment on this forum) but I find it hard to believe that it can't power just two ML's.

Dude, you can't plug those things into a $350 90W 8ohm receiver and expect anything other than crap.

Your attitude sucks. I don't feel like helping anymore.

 

[dwcscca]

Ok, so maybe I'm having problems because of my amp. Can anyone recommend an amp that I could get for less than $500 that would sound ok with the vistas?

 

[Pcar928fan]

So to compensate for the 2 ohm ML's, I just double-wire the speakers so that they're hooked up to my front and rear channels.

Stupid idea, and likely the reason your speakers don't sound good, that and your receiver is what 1/10 the cost of the speakers or something like that? If you can't afford REASONABLE gear to drive a high end speaker then maybe you should not have bought the speaker in the first place, or at the VERY LEAST should not be complaining because it does not sound good with crap driving it.

 

[jtwrace]

Ok, so maybe I'm having problems because of my amp. Can anyone recommend an amp that I could get for less than $500 that would sound ok with the vistas?

Listen, I disagree that your amp is the total problem. I have heard my scenarios through a $200 reciever. The bottom line is that a ML will still have the characteristics that people LOVE or HATE. You need to "play" with them and really listen. Of course, the girlfriend will say they sound the same....she get's new shoes if she does. Pick the music apart and really listen to the music not just the noise that comes from them. Sit, relax and listen. You will hear it if you A/B/A. If not, go to my original post.

 

[IWalker]

Honestly...you'd be better off with a pro-amp in that price range, don't get all the finesse, but you can get the power to actually drive them without clipping. A Crown XLS402B would do.

However, realistally...if you're going to set a budget...your speakers shouldn't take up more than 50-60% of the total budget. If you don't have $6000 to spend, the vistas probably aren't the best choice.

A friend of mine got clarities with a $1000 denon amp, and even that doesn't do it justice (my crown pro-amp sounded better). If you could find rotel or outlaw seperates, they could start doing the trick, I think. The power supply, more than the rated wattage is what really matters.

If you're serious about getting up to that $6000 or so point, then you can start off with the speakers piece by piece....but if you're not, you're probably better off not getting MLs. That's just my opinion though.

 

[Tj Bassi]

Somehow you're missing something. Could be the receiver (probably)....could be your source components (maybe), placement (always), general surroundings (apartment?), cables (yup, they make a difference also)....could be any number of things. What I would do (and I still do just for fun) is visit a dealer with some properly set up ML gear, bring a few of your favorite recordings, and start your 'test drive' there. Ask specifically to hear a pair of Vistas and take note of what equipment they are running with. Most dealers have setups that will knock your socks off....you'll see just how good ML's can be......

T-

 

[aerius007]

Any chance I can talk the people here into not wasting their time with this thread. It has no point and no direction. He doesnt like logans, good for him. My nephews favorite place to eat is McDonalds, whats the point of debating something as crazy as that. Regarless of what amp he is using he stated he heard no difference at all, with the exception of some more bass. That alone is enough to convince me he has no idea what he is talking about and should not even begin to consider spending more than $200 on speakers. I am ashamed for giving this thread any attention at all.

 

[dwcscca]

Thanks to everyone for all of the tips. I think I'll make a trip to the dealer over the weekend and see if he can hook me up with a different amp for testing.

 

[twich54]

I suggest you go to Amazon and Purchase Robert Harley's 'Guide to High End Audio' book , I think it's $21. Read it, and while it might not be the end all to our wonderfull hobby, you would at least 'get your self up to speed' !

Good Luck !!

 

[lugano]

I've been ironic on purpose, because I'm not aware of other polite ways to deal with this kind of ouvertures. I mean, if somebody comes along and says "hey freaks, I think ML suck, prove me wrong", I might get into serious mode and explain some, but if the starter meal is "I __listened__ to them and they suck", I'm clueless about where to begin.

room? amp? positioning? source? cables? burn-in? Ear wax?

bofff ???

 

[lugano]

Any chance I can talk the people here into not wasting their time with this thread. It has no point and no direction. He doesnt like logans, good for him. My nephews favorite place to eat is McDonalds, whats the point of debating something as crazy as that.

Aerius, while I'm completely on the same side you are, I sometimes wonder if it's not in our interest to debate it. We're dealing with the mp3 generation, and if they win, ML closes. If we are able to teach slow food to the McDonalds generation, there's a hope for haute cuisine, and if we can point out the subtleties in sound that make the difference between bose and ML, we'll enjoy MartinLogans and spare parts for them a long time from now. So actually it's in our own interest to educate. It's just hard to differentiate trolling from juvenile arrogance.

 

[IWalker]

he also seems geniune enough in learning more...even if the budget might be a tad low. I can certainly appreciate that for certain genre's of music MLs do not sound the best, but for others they are unbeatable.

Question...what kind of music do you listen to most? If it's rock or rap or pop, MLs probably won't be a revelation for you. If you're a jazz or classical or vocal lover...MLs should be a revelatory experience for you.

Adding a good low end to the logan panels goes a long way to making them sound good with more "modern" genres of music, though...then you get the best of all worlds.

 

[aerius007]

Aerius, while I'm completely on the same side you are, I sometimes wonder if it's not in our interest to debate it. We're dealing with the mp3 generation, and if they win, ML closes. If we are able to teach slow food to the McDonalds generation, there's a hope for haute cuisine, and if we can point out the subtleties in sound that make the difference between bose and ML, we'll enjoy MartinLogans and spare parts for them a long time from now. So actually it's in our own interest to educate. It's just hard to differentiate trolling from juvenile arrogance.

Lugano, as always valid points. However coming in to a troll free ML forum and starting a thread titled "ML is overrated" and then going on about how he is glad he didnt get stuck with them leads me to believe that he is not sincere with his opinions. I really enjoy this website and while I know I have alot to learn about audio I would try to do so in a more respectful manner. It would be like me seeing a Quinting on someones wrist and going to the trouble to point out that my casio basically does the same thing.

 

[Joey_V]

Thanks to everyone for all of the tips. I think I'll make a trip to the dealer over the weekend and see if he can hook me up with a different amp for testing.

I'm not sure you're for real..... if you cant hear the difference between a bookshelf and the ML, then:

1. You're not listening right, as in you're probably not even in the sweetspot at all.
2. You dont have a clue what to listen about, meaning you have no sense of soundstage (height/width/depth)... you have no clue of what stereo listening is about and you're more about listening to speakers as an ambience or in the background while cooking, cleaning, or just walking about the apartment.
3. If you come here and state that your $250 receiver is the best you've heard and you try to that when the majority here have $2000-6000 amps with $2000-6000 preamp along with $2000 to 6000 sources (and if you've really been reading here for a while).... that's just a sign that you havent been reading our forum for too long. You're just yanking our chains then... and you're really a troll.
4. You dont even have them positioned properly... do you know how to position speakers correctly? How to have them in a sort of equilateral or isosceles triange (with the height from the base to be slighty longer than base, meaning your seating position is slightly further in distance measured than the distance measured between the 2 separated speakers). Do you have any sort of toe-in with the speakers?
5. What kind of room do you have? If it's an overly live room, then it may just be not too good of an environment to place the Vistas, which are much larger, than the Infinity bookshelves.

And yes, I've heard your particular Infinity speakers.... the exact same models, and even I dont go around stating that they're crap.

It's call forum tact, my friend.

Joey

 

[Joey_V]

Lugano, as always valid points. However coming in to a troll free ML forum and starting a thread titled "ML is overrated" and then going on about how he is glad he didnt get stuck with them leads me to believe that he is not sincere with his opinions. I really enjoy this website and while I know I have alot to learn about audio I would try to do so in a more respectful manner.

I agree on all counts.

 

[lugano]

It would be like me seeing a Quinting on someones wrist and going to the trouble to point out that my casio basically does the same thing.

AHAAAAH... the Quinting DOES haunt you, as it does haunt me



Sure, you're right about bashing down the door instead of ringing the bell.


... but dwcscca could be Jim Power sampling our faith in ML...