Explain Speaker Placement to me like a Beginner

[andrew.hendler]

Hi All -

I've had my 13as for a couple years and, unfortunately, about 6 months ago I had a partial panel failure. The good news, is that I was able to get brand new panels (though I had to pay for 1). I've been running them for about 3 months, though there aren't a ton of hours on them.

I've typically had my dealer set up the speakers, and while he's good, he puts them closer than is recommended to the back wall. Additionally, he has the left toed in less than the right because the left speaker is 5 feet from the side wall and the right speaker isn't.

Additionally, he went through ARC with the previous panels, and when we placed them again, we didn't re-run Arc. While I had tape on the ground to get them back in position, it wasn't an exact thing.

What I'm finding is that they don't sound quite as good as they did before. Yes, they've had to break in, but the staging seems off and the bass doesn't seem quite right. Furthermore, while I've adjusted the rake a little bit, the upper mids are a bit hot (especially high piano keys out of the right channel). Previously, with the old panels, I had solved this by moving off the back wall more.

At this point, I would like to learn how to best adjust these for my preferences without relying on my dealer. He's a great guy, but I'd like to learn how to do this myself and for my preferences. I'm not listening to the speakers as much and it's a shame.

Where to start? Also, I have the perfect bass kit, so I can rerun Arc at any point. This seems pretty straightforward and probably the easier thing to do than placing the panels ideally.

 

[JonFo]

Giving a general theory would take a book, so let's start with your specific layout. You describe it well, but a floor plan with dimensions and locations would greatly help. A hand-drawn one is fine.

Step 1 is to discuss locations and other things, like room treatments, as it sounds like it's an asymmetric setup.

Once placed correctly, then run PBK, and finally, if the processor has room correction (Audessey, Dirac, etc.), run that.

 

[andrew.hendler]

That's more than fair. I have no room treatments, but they are in a carpeted room. It's L shaped and the ceiling is of different heights as it's a basement. The woofers are placed a foot from the back wall and the panels, therefore are about 3 feet. The seating is placed halfway into the room, so there is a good 10 -15 feet behind the couch.

I just removed any rake (but left the spikes in), and that moved things in the right direction at least. Tonally it sounds more linear (maybe these panels do need some more break in - the woofers however are broken in). Moving the couch around a tiny bit and Vocals and Bass are centered. Vocals may be a bit too "big" and take up much of the soundstage, but big vocals, I know, go with these speakers.

Here are some pictures to give you a better idea (the couch could use some tidying up):


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[Doug033]

First, I would recommend verifying that the rake angles are truly equal. Mine get muddy vocals if they are off by even a couple of degrees. Use a digital protractor placed at the top of the panels. Rake angles can also change the vertical placement of center vocals; back lowers the image, tilted forward raises the image. After you’ve arrived at the optimum rake, move on to toe-in. Your comment that the vocals seemed too “big” makes me think you don’t have enough toe-in. But, like the rake angles, make sure they are exactly equal.

 

[Tmort]

I’d definitely pull them further out from the front wall, do the “ flashlight test” to correct the toe in (the right speaker is facing you directly). But, most importantly get some sound absorption on the walls directly behind those panels, that alone will SHOCK you at what it does for your clarity and soundstage. I’ve used GIK Acoustics panels, there are others but they can also help you with other ideas. The biggie though is taming those front wall reflections.

 

[JonFo]

As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words, thanks.

OK, this is not an uncommon setup, with one speaker near a sidewall yet open on the other side. I'd guess your soundstage is a bit skewed to the left. Your dealer attempted to mitigate that a tiny bit using the toe-in, which controls the rear wave reflection angles off the front and the side walls.

To solve this, you will need to use absorption on the left side wall, roughly from the HVAC air return all the way to the front wall. That will kill the reflections from the front wall and be more similar to what happens to the rear wave of the right speaker, which bounces off the front wall and off into open space.

The issue with "the upper mids are a bit hot (especially high piano keys out of the right channel)" is due to comb-filtering and ringing because the panels rear wave (remember, an ESL outputs just as much sound from the rear as from the front).
As a fellow piano enthusiast, I am very familiar with this. When I first deployed my ESLs, I had the same issue.

The mitigation for this is to place absorption on the front wall at the location where the panel points (so it is a bit more to the sides than straight behind the speaker).
If you are open to DIY, I can give some suggestions, but if you want a simple, quick fix, then a RealTraps Mini Trap HF (the HF is critical; that means no High-Frequency reflections) hung 2 or 3" off the wall will do it.

The absorption for the left could be a pair of Mini Traps, as that will also mitigate a low and mid frequency 'boominess' from the boundary reinforcement.
Or, you could make a DIY box that is 4' high and the length of the door to the front wall, something like my custom sidewall treatments.

 

[Tmort]

https://www.gikacoustics.com/product/gik-acoustics-244-bass-trap-flexrange-technology/
These panels in a 24x48” size are really good, ask for samples of the upgraded fabrics they are well worth the money…. You can make them work with the aesthetics of your space.
A nice bass trap in the left side corner there would be a good idea too I suspect.

 

[andrew.hendler]

Thanks. I will try some sound absorption panels. Thing is, I got the sound pretty great and non-fatiguing with the old panels. The only change in the room was we got a new carpet which is slightly thinner and tighter knit. But before I replaced the panels they were playing in the room with these speakers and I couldn’t get the highs to be pronounced enough.

I am hoping it’s mostly break in, because I haven’t put a lot of hours on the new panels - I’m trying to remedy that now. It’s the only thing that makes sense, really, unless ML changed the panels. That said, I did have some “beaming” before when I first got the speakers.

That said, it’s about time to rid acoustic treatments of some kind. With the amount I’ve spent on audio equipment it should be a no brainer.