Excellent Ethan Winer Video.

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Audio Myths Workshop

It's all good providing the M-Audio software he's using "does what it says on the tin", I suppose;). Not sure this stuff ever really gets properly validated, but hey.

Be careful Gordon, I believe there's a specific MLOC Marigo dots thread related reference in here.:D
 
Audio Myths Workshop

It's all good providing the M-Audio software he's using "does what it says on the tin", I suppose;). Not sure this stuff ever really gets properly validated, but hey.

Be careful Gordon, I believe there's a specific MLOC Marigo dots thread related reference in here.:D

58 minutes! Dunno where you get your time? Can you tell me, 'cos I need some extra value from my time. As for now - 58 minutes is better spent in front of my 'Logans - not the fr1gg1n' computer.......sorry!
 
58 minutes! Dunno where you get your time? Can you tell me, 'cos I need some extra value from my time. As for now - 58 minutes is better spent in front of my 'Logans - not the fr1gg1n' computer.......sorry!

Ill at home with a stinking cold is the answer.

58 minutes - don't you watch the telly Adam? 58 minutes is nothing. A documentary perhaps. This is something you are supposed to be interested in.
 
Excellent presentation! But still won't convert the naysayers!!

BTW, 58 mins is just to watch the video. If you really want to participate in the test tracks, you need to d/l them from Ethan's site.
 
Justin,

As you know, my opinion of Mr. Winer is well documented in a previous thread.

With all due respect, I'll pass on watching the vid.

Gordon

PS: For the record and as of this date, Mr. Winer has apparently decided to not contribute to the operational costs of this website (read sponsorship) despite his actions to use this site, and perhaps other sites, to promote his products and his self interests.
 
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My problem with the measurement guys is that they are always so dogmatic.

Add to the fact that I have NEVER heard a good system that sounded remotely musical or natural (or what ever you want to call it) at the home of a measurement guy. Every time I meet someone who tells me that they are into measurements, etc etc, I almost always hear the same thing when listening to their system.

A system that plays very loud with no subtlety and almost always a very overdamped, dead sounding room. I'm still keeping an open mind, and I think measurements have some validity and can certainly help you nail down a problem that you're hearing, but so far in 35 years, everyone that starts spouting about rules, absolutes and truths hasn't impressed me with anything that sounds that good.

But hey, it's got to be out there somewhere!
 
i enjoyed it even though it was a bit long. its like arguing science over religion when pondering our begining, either you believe the intangible or you believe the results of the equation. i believe there is a happy middle ground somewhere.
 
Having a science background, I tend to favor measurements and double-blind testing, but am not dogmatic about it, and believe that pure listening still plays a critical role.

What I truly wish we had the technology for, would be special glasses (or perhaps some kind of video recorder) that would allow us to actually SEE the sound waves emanating from our speakers, and reflecting off walls and objects, much like watching ripples from a stone thrown in a pond! Why hasn't anybody figured out yet how to do that?
 
My problem with the measurement guys is that they are always so dogmatic.

Add to the fact that I have NEVER heard a good system that sounded remotely musical or natural (or what ever you want to call it) at the home of a measurement guy. Every time I meet someone who tells me that they are into measurements, etc etc, I almost always hear the same thing when listening to their system.

A system that plays very loud with no subtlety and almost always a very overdamped, dead sounding room. I'm still keeping an open mind, and I think measurements have some validity and can certainly help you nail down a problem that you're hearing, but so far in 35 years, everyone that starts spouting about rules, absolutes and truths hasn't impressed me with anything that sounds that good.

But hey, it's got to be out there somewhere!

The YG Acoustics line are built on measurements and you seemed to like the Anat Ref...........

Not that I'm sprouting measurements or anything - my veiw on the matter is also well documented in the famous Magic Dots thread, and elsewhere.
 
The YG Acoustics line are built on measurements and you seemed to like the Anat Ref...........

Not that I'm sprouting measurements or anything - my veiw on the matter is also well documented in the famous Magic Dots thread, and elsewhere.

They aren't solely based on measurements and I'm talking more about rooms than individual components...
 
I watched the video this morning and some of the things were way over my head. I'm not going to to try and defend or debunk anything Ethan had to say except for this:

Ethan has the access to sound processing that the average guy does not. He has all those plug ins and processors to tailor the sound he desires which the average guy (you and I) do not. I think the response he had to "tweaks" was uncalled for in the context of the video. He was discussing mixing, which I don't care about unless it is poorly done.

Perhaps if he was not a sound engineer he would have a more open mind to the possible differences in gear and wires. One of the experiments he offered I nailed on the first try. No big deal to me. He can create the differences electronically that you and I have to experiment with different pieces of gear.

So I'm on the fence about Ethan. Some things I agree with, some I don't. I will admit that his traps are of the finest quality and perform as he says they will. Some of his thoughts and opinions are in opposition to what I think but that is what makes the world go round!

Gordon
 
Jeff has a good point, and ive even noticed as ive seen a good many of ethans videos now, his system is NOT impressive. why is it that the measurement guys never have the best systems? but yet a measurement guy can walk into a room with a good system and make it sound great. the same system that sounded bad even though as you read the spec sheet it should sound damn good. to me it proves that balance is the key, and none of the single parts is as good as sum total.

some musicians learn to play by playing back what they hear, and some learn by being taught notes on a page, so i ask if both paths lead them to play their masterpiece which was better?
 
One thing about the video surprised me a bit - I was listening to it through an Asus Xonar Essence ST / Behringer A500 / Mark & Daniel Sapphires and the YouTube sound was better than you'd expect. Not excellent by any means, but not too bad. Didn't feel the need to do the downloads, as I expect most won't anyway. And instinctively, you know if you do, you won't hear the difference (where its intended) anyway. Ethan's going to be pretty sure about that.

I had a couple of audiophiles round last night, and unprompted one of them said "it's at times like this when I think the measurement guys are correct". We were listening to the above system before moving onto the Logan based one.

I thought this was interesting coming from an SP10 / Kondo M77 / custom made tube amp and home made horn speaker user, which will do anything but measure well.

The premise, of course, is that the Behringer costs peanuts, but measures well, as does the sound card - which has a staggering test plot supplied with it showing an S/N of 144DB - much better than claimed. The M&Ds don't cost the earth, yet as they walked out there was no doubting in both visitor's minds that this little system was knocking out surprisingly great results for the expenditure. I'm pretty sure they were genuinely really impressed by it.

Whilst I was aware of the back tracking on Stairway To Heaven, I didn't realise just how extensive it was. The only bit I was aware of was the "my sweet Satan" bit:devil: Interesting.

Another interesting part of the video was the $25 sound card recording as well as the $8000 Apogee.:D
 
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I wonder what the guys at TAS will think about the video :rolleyes:

Tj
 
It will not surprise the audience to hear that I agree a lot with what Ethan has to say.

I feel our hobby is too often overrun by magic and voodoo that preys on the fact that the human psycho-acoustic processing system has a lot of susceptibility to external influence on the ‘psycho’ side of things ;)

On the other hand, one can go too far to the measurements only side of things. I know on occasion I stray there.
For instance, I’d agree, Ethan’s system is nothing to write home about, but I do bet that in his room, it probably sounds better than the many of high-buck systems I see pictured in Stereophile end user living rooms. Again, my analogy of Ferraris on a muddy dirt tracks applies.

So it is all about finding that balance between quality gear, and an appropriate room setup.

Jeff, my invitation to come listen to my setup is always open. I think it might change your views on what a metrics and music driven setup can do.

After growing up listening to Steinway grand piano, played by a Julliard grad (and his friends on violin and Cello), my frame of reference for musically correct balance is pretty good. This system gets the closest I’ve ever heard to that reference.

It took a LOT of learning, trial and error, measurement and gear upgrades to get here. And I know I could still do better, as my measurements do show additional room for improvement.
 
I feel our hobby is too often overrun by magic and voodoo that preys on the fact that the human psycho-acoustic processing system has a lot of susceptibility to external influence on the ‘psycho’ side of things ;)

Too right there. "Prey" is a good word - there are a lot of sharks out there stealing people's money!

To be fair though - there is also a lot of very real things that we don't understand. It gets put down as voodoo or magic.

Separating the **** from the treasure is the really hard part (and the fun part in most cases)!!
 
That's right, Adam. Just what is bollocks and what is real?

That's why I like Ethan. He's got he guts to stand up and say hold on a minute, what is real here? He trusts his test equipment better than his ears. People like this are essential, and we must not forget that hi-fi is a product of engineering.
 
yeah and he's listening to an $800 hifi system saying the good stuff isn't any good because he can't measure it....
 
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