ESL high end

[sc1984]

Hello All,

I've had my ESLs for about 5 years and love them for their price point. Now, I made the mistake of having my audio engineer friend come over and listen. He then brought over is tiny SLS bookshelf speakers with ribbon tweeters. They blew the ESLs out of the water for transparency/clarity. They seem to hit higher frequencies and made the ESL sound dull. Obviously only the high-end were better given they were bookshelf. So, are all ML panels created equal for the most part? Or do the higher end 9A/11A/13A have better clarity/transparency/top end?

 

[ttocs]

For our electrostatic speakers, amplifiers make a difference in the upper frequency ranges. Some amps can make the speakers sound harsh, and some amps have trouble in the upper frequency ranges so the high frequencies get rolled off very early.

So, what amplification are you running with your ESLs?

 

[sc1984]

Currently running off 3700h receiver. About to upgrade to amps soon. I could see midrange/bass being increased significantly with proper amplification but it really effects the upper range that much?

 

[Tosh]

He then brought over is tiny SLS bookshelf speakers with ribbon tweeters.

These SLS S8R?

 

[sc1984]

These SLS S8R?

That's the one

 

[ttocs]

Currently running off 3700h receiver. About to upgrade to amps soon. I could see midrange/bass being increased significantly with proper amplification but it really effects the upper range that much?

Yes. As the impedance drops in the upper frequency range, the SPL of the upper frequencies will drop as an amplifier struggles with the low impedance.

Attached is a comparison of three amps driving a ML 13A speaker. Two amps double in power from 8Ω to 4Ω and have no trouble maintaining power as the impedance drops to below 1Ω. The Krell is advertised as being "impervious to difficult loads", and the Emotiva amp is not rated down to 2Ω but can handle it well. The M-125 amp isn't rated below 4Ω and has a lot of trouble in the upper frequencies where the impedance drops. At 5kHz the impedance is 4Ω, at 6.5kHz the impedance is 3Ω, and at about 8kHz the impedance is 2.5Ω, and below 2.5Ω the M-125 amp has more extreme difficulty. So yes, impedance really does affect the upper range when the amplifier cannot handle the impedance drop.

 

[Fidji99]

Sometimes elevated treble is being mistaken for clarity.

 

[Tosh]

Tweeter is one of these Swan RT2C:
https://www.swanspeakers.com/product/view?id=598
(Woofer is also a Swan.)

Tweeter also sold as Hi-Vi brand:
https://www.parts-express.com/HiVi-...GIR5RaGqwa1yXG7uIMdA2NHXRcBbBtDxiKIFwnDsJrunA

 

[Duke]

Yes. As the impedance drops in the upper frequency range, the SPL of the upper frequencies will drop as an amplifier struggles with the low impedance.

Attached is a comparison of three amps driving a ML 13A speaker. Two amps double in power from 8Ω to 4Ω and have no trouble maintaining power as the impedance drops to below 1Ω. The Krell is advertised as being "impervious to difficult loads", and the Emotiva amp is not rated down to 2Ω but can handle it well. The M-125 amp isn't rated below 4Ω and has a lot of trouble in the upper frequencies where the impedance drops. At 5kHz the impedance is 4Ω, at 6.5kHz the impedance is 3Ω, and at about 8kHz the impedance is 2.5Ω, and below 2.5Ω the M-125 amp has more extreme difficulty. So yes, impedance really does affect the upper range when the amplifier cannot handle the impedance drop.
View attachment 25540

I love the Krell especially the analytical amps. I prefer to focus on the attributes I like with the ML panels which is their speed. I do get tips from other forums and this screen grab defined it for me better than I could otherwise.

 

[StimpyWan]

The SLS S8R's use planar magnetic tweeters. So, they are not true ribbon tweeters, and more similar to Infinity Emit tweeters. As such, there's no reason, with proper amplification, your EM-ESL's shouldn't sound just as good. My EM-ESL's sound great on my Adcom GFA5400 or my Aragon 2004MKii amps.

Also, there is another area where speaker differences might come into play, and that is in the speaker crossovers. The EM-ESL's use Mylar capacitors on the high end, which are not the most transparent caps I've heard. Not offensive, but not very clear either. If the S8R's use better capacitors, you could be hearing that difference too. I've personally recapped a number of my speakers, and I have the caps (Mundorf EVO Supreme Oils and Clarity Cap CSA's) to do my EM-ESL's. I know they'll make an audible beneficial improvement, based on previous experience.

 

[Russr]

I'd suggest getting an external power amp to drive your ESL's. Doesn't have to be mega$$$... you can find some great deals on second-hand amps. I'd recommend Anthem MCA 20 or 225, Bryston 4B-ST or 4B-SST, etc.
Your Denon should have line-outs for each channel - you can use those to feed the power-amp(s).

Good luck!