Electromotion ESL vs RC-70

[NLaudiophile]

I'm new to this website and am looking for some insight on speakers. I've researched and read a lot of information on the ESLs and had all intentions of buying them. I go to the store and listen to them for a few mins. Very impressed. Then I return, learn that the store is selling off Energy RC-70s, much more less than the MLs. Honestly, I like the sound, yet I'm looking for a pure, clean, crisp sound. I have on Onkyo 818 to drive the speakers. Would I notice a significant amount of difference in sound for the extra money thats needed for the MLs ($700 more per speaker). Can someone give a detailed description how these 2 speakers compare/differ? Would it be worth the extra money? Can the Onkyo provide sufficient power to really bring the ML's to life?

Room size 12 X 17
Listening: 80% movies, 20% music


Thanks

 

[roberto]

Hola. The first advice that I am going to suggest is: Trust your ears!. If you liked what you listened, then your problem is solved. We here, listen a huge difference between any cone speaker versus electrostatic. The most common differences are: The electrostatic speakers shows right away these easy to listen advantages: 1) the size of the instruments(s) 2) The stage where the musician(s) are playing. 3) The air between instruments 4) When you listen to the other speakers, you listen to the music, with electrostatic you listen to the musician(s) playing the instruments for you,... there..., in your own place. 5) The coherence between lower notes and up. 6) The transparency. 7) The panels move a lot of air, you do not need to play the music too loud to have the whole room filled with music. 8) The diaphragm of Martin Logan, weights less than the air that it moves!!!, so nuances of the music is impressive. and free of coloration. 9) The inner detail of the sound will be reflected by the quality of your components... a reason why many high end manufactures use Martin Logan as a tool design. 10) Vocals are so natural. 11) You will find yourself tapping with your feet and singing along with the music. 12) The electrostatic speaker is free of ear fatigue. You can listen hours and hours, and you do not get tired due to the sound. and on and on... there too many differences! Sound it is a matter of liking. If you find what I said above and will not suit to you, then get the ones that you liked most and enjoy the music as we do. The comparison is not fair, that much, the electrostatics are better than others. Happy listening!

 

[NLaudiophile]

Thanks for the info. I would def like to have that kind of sound. I did notice the clarity when listening to them at the store but it was in a large open area(futureshop) with everything else around it turned on.

You mention a lot about the music, which is great as im just starting a collection of blu-ray concerts(country, easy listening, rock, classic rock genres)but what about movies? Will they produce that same sound and separation during movies? Will it produce the full effect of explosions or rain, wind, etc(just mentioning those for high and low sounds. What about voices during movies? Are they clear and crisp? Im determined to find that enveloping sound, that when people sit and watch, they feel as though whatever is on the screen or wherever the sound is located on the screen, you will not be able to tell its coming from a particular speaker. What about the small sweet spot I've read about, will that cause problems in what I'm looking for.

 

[TomDac]

What Roberto says is 100% correct... I'd like to also add that when you get your new ML's home, you may not have the breathtaking experience you did in the store. Besides the fact that they'll take some time to break in, ML's are notorious for revealing weaknesses in your upstream components, which of course will lead you to start upgrading the rest of your gear... And now you'll be on that wonderful merry-go-round... and room acoustics and proper positioning will also play a huge factor in how they sound when you get them home... getting them dialed in is a huge part of the fun, in my opinion... Good luck and welcome to MLO.

 

[Bevensee]

To me one of the main differences is that with Logan I don't listen to treble and midrange. I listen to musicians playing and singing. Once you get used to not having a discontinuity in dispersion between mid and treble at the crossover, I'm afraid that there is no going back to dynamic drivers in a box. I used to have Vienna acoustics, which really excell at the mid/treb integration. And yet, after switching to ESL, the difference in this area is uncanny. But you need to test them with your own amp. Not all amps can handle 1 Ohm (or less) impedance!

But if you try them, and you like what you hear, I think you will quickly forget the extra 700 per speaker. On the other hand, if you try and you like the dynamic speakers better, then go for them and celebrate your good fortune! It really is like Roberto wrote: trust you ears.

 

[NLaudiophile]

So, I packed up the RC-70s, took them back to futureshop and upgraded to the ESLs. Its a little hard to hear the difference but I do notice a wider sound stage, pure clarity, crisp and clean highs. I do notice a loss in the low end but I believe that's to be expected.

So, I had an unbiased listener take a listen. My gf, who I am justifying the extra money money spent on speakers that, to her, "look like cheese graters!!". She did say, they are clear......but at the beginning of avengers, the heliochopter enters the screen and she noticed that there wasn't a "rumble" before you could see the chopper, which was present with the RC-70s. I realize that those had 2 woofers on each speaker and bi-amped, which would make difference I'm sure. My next purchase will be a subwoofer. I'm currently using one that my brother had from a HTIB, it's small with a range as low as 60Hz. It's not much good but adding some extra bass I guess.

In a nut shell, I love the speakers, I'm constantly listening to music. It's such a enveloping sound, clean and clear. Hearing each instrument coming from different sides of the room and the vocals in the center. It's amazing.

My next 2 purchases, a new center to replace the Bose vcs-10, and the sub.

Any suggestions? I'm looking towards the dynamo 700 or 1000 and the Electromotion center. Any thoughts? Are there other brands that I should consider?

Thanks....

 

[peacefulcargo]

Well done on esls. I would go with 2 subs if you can in the Dynamo range. This will equalize your room more with spacial ambiance and also add a foundation for the bass in terms of movie effects. Having one sub is fine, takes a bit of time to tune in.

 

[Bevensee]

Congrat's on your ESLs! I hope you will be very happy with them.

 

[InterMechanico]

Congratulations on your new M/L's. Like you, I first heard my Vistas in a Future Shop Sound room. I was very much less than impressed with the sound, but I never the less took them home anyway. (IMO, F/S has NO business selling M/L. The child sales people not only fail to demonstrate the advantages of the ESL's, they actually manage to RedRum the sound!lol) After some enjoyable trial and error, and some quality time with the Manual, I was able to get to a point where everything fit Just Right. Just a suggestion, but maybe try to bypass as much of the electronic "enhancement" on your AVR while making your initial placement adjustments. Also, you had mentioned that you were not wholly satisfied with the bass response of the Electromotions. I can confidently recommend that you try placing them on large concrete Patio stones (just to try) to increase the level and crispness of the woofer. I will post a link to another thread regarding this. Julian

http://http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?14437-Hello-from-the-Uk

 

[edwinr]

The difference between so-called 'budget' Martin Logan speakers and even very good cone speakers is quite profound. While I am waiting on the delivery of my Ethos speakers, I am currently enjoying a pair of Elac FS-247 'loaners'. The Elacs are not inexpensive and feature ribbon tweeters and aluminium coned mid/woofers. Despite their technology and high quality design, the Elacs offer a very restricted soundstage and dynamics compared to my old Theos speakers. This is not their fault, it's just the unfair advantage that properly engineered panel speakers have over normal box designs.

The EM ESLs will benefit from a high quality sub like the Dynamo series as you suggest, or consider a REL sub. Like the ML subs, the REL is very fast and musical and will keep up with the electrostatic panels.