Distance from wall- farther not always better!

[sleepysurf]

I had a rare afternoon off, and decided to experiment. Most ML (and dipole) owners, myself included, have always advocated pulling the speakers as far from the front wall as possible. With my old setup, I had my Summits ~4 ft from wall to panels. I've recently reconfigured my room, and had maintained that same distance, but had noted a new (substantial) bass node around 50 Hz. I was able to tame it a bit by dialing down my Summit woofers an additional 2 db at 50 Hz, pending experiments with room acoustic treatments.

This afternoon, on a whim, I put my Summits on furniture sliders, and progressively moved them even FARTHER out from front wall, until over 5' out. I fully expected the bass boominess to improve, but in fact, it got WORSE the farther out I pulled them. Now confused, I reversed the process, and started pushing them back closer to the wall, 6" at a time. Lo, and behold, I found the SMOOTHEST bass response occurred with the panels only 40-42" from the wall! The soundstage became deeper, and wider (necessitating a bit more toe-in), but midrange vocals actually moved forward a bit.

I guess this proves how new furniture (plus a new flat screen HDTV)can significantly alter room acoustics, creating room nodes and/or nulls, which sometimes require CLOSER wall placement to overcome.

For anybody else experiencing such issues, I urge you to experiment with BOTH farther and nearer wall placement. You might be surprised with what you hear!

 

[rs2]

I too have been experimenting with speaker positioning and toe in based on advice from sleepy in another thread. In my system it makes a MUCH bigger difference than any component or gadget has ever made. Just moving my TV around a bit makes a big difference!

I guess the only rule here would be experiment...experiment...experiment.

 

[DrPig]

Have you experimented with "tipping" the speaker forward or back? I found by tipping my Aeons down about an inch or so, made them a little cleaner and less boomy. I had them tipped about 2", but then they started sounding too thin.

 

[jjay]

Moving your chair position further forward or back also can affect the best listening position. By moving your chair forward or back you can improve the room first reflection points and rear reflections. After you move your speakers to the best position from the front wall, try moving your chair forward or backwards. This can help take the "room out of the equation".
Jim

 

[sleepysurf]

Moving your chair position further forward or back also can affect the best listening position. By moving your chair forward or back you can improve the room first reflection points and rear reflections. After you move your speakers to the best position from the front wall, try moving your chair forward or backwards. This can help take the "room out of the equation".
Jim

Ahhh, very good point, I forgot to mention that! I did, in fact, move my listening postion back and forth (limited to about 18" wiggle room), but the actual speaker placement (at least in my room), proved more critical.

 

[jjay]

It wasn't my idea but advice I got from Barry Diament - remastering engineer who has given good advice over at the Steve Hoffman site. This tip worked wonders for me.
Jim

 

[music again]

Agree

I just received my new Summits a couple of days ago. These replaced a pair of Vantages and a Descent i. I have covered most of the carpet in the first 5 feet from the wall, and the 10 feet across! I had the Vantages pretty well locked on, but the Summits are a whole new ball game!

Right now I have the top of the panels 36" from the wall with 3" of toe in, so it's 36" and 33" out from the wall. I had them nearly 5' out from the wall, and did not like what I heard. The vocals were all but lost. I was surprised to find I am still getting a very large sound stage, even with then only 36" out. Vocals are much more pronounced, but not completey centered/locked in . . . yet. I only have about 12 hours on them, so I'm not doing any critical listening at this point. I have noticed what others have called a "veil" around the sound, which I did not experience with my Vanatges once broken in. Hopefully this will open up after awhile. I'm sure it's my electronics contribiting to this effect as well (1980's Hafler stuff).

For sure, distance from the back wall, distance between speakers, your seating distance from the front of the panels, angle of the panel, toe in and room dimensions ALL make a huge difference!!! It's both fun and tiring trying to find just the right combination. I'm a ways away, but enjoying the ride just the same!

Joe

 

[Craig]

Also consider the distance from the side walls. You want to avoid having the speaker (or sub) equidistant from the front wall and side wall. Having them equidistant from both side and front walls amplifies the bass nodes creating more boominess and muddy bass.

My system sounds different depending on the seating location within the room. Unfortunately my prime seating position does not offer the best bass response but I have to compromise somewhat due to furniture arrangement limitations. Inspite of the small compromise it still sounds great and I haven't moved my speakers in months nor have I upgraded anything in awhile. I've just been enjoying what I have and how it's setup. Seems kinda of strange when you think about it.

 

[tonepub]

while this probably won't work for most of you due to space restrictions, the biggest improvement I got in the sound of my Summits was to take the two racks of gear out from between them!

Now I just have a power amp on a stand on the floor. Nothing between
the speakers and it really opened up the soundstage!

 

[sleepysurf]

while this probably won't work for most of you due to space restrictions, the biggest improvement I got in the sound of my Summits was to take the two racks of gear out from between them!

Now I just have a power amp on a stand on the floor. Nothing between
the speakers and it really opened up the soundstage!

Only way I'm gonna have a dedicated listening room is in my next life!

 

[Bernard]

while this probably won't work for most of you due to space restrictions, the biggest improvement I got in the sound of my Summits was to take the two racks of gear out from between them! ...........

Were the racks in the same plane as the speakers, or behind them ?

 

[MOON]

I had read somewhere that if you have ,for instance 5 feet of space from the wall to the ML panel, you should have 5 feet of space from the back wall to your listening position. The article said whatever the distance to the panel, the distance to the listening position off the back wall should be the same.

I will be able to try it out, whenever I get my dedicated room finished. Any thoughts on this. Thanks,
Greg

 

[DrJRapp]

I did the funiture slide thing a few months ago with similar results. In my room The Summits sound their best with the rear surface of the Stat panels 36" from the front wall and very little toe. My speakers are about 7.5 feet apart edge to edge.

I too noticed that as I pulled the speakers further out from the wall that they became a bit bass heavy. I theorize that 36" gives me just the correct amount of reinforcement for the rear reflections to keep everything in balance. Further out weakens the rear reflections and the speaker apparently becomes bass heavy.

Tilt has also proven to be a bigger factor than expected. My Summits are nearly upright, beyond the adjustment range of the feet. I had to use shims(actually a pair of furniture slides) to get to my ideal point. Tilt seems to effect soundstage and midrange clarity tremendously.

I also have artificial plants strategically placed right and left of the speakers along the front wall. These act as acoustical control diffusers and nearly eliminate 1st order reflections off the sidewall. I needed to do this because my speakers are asymetrically placed in the room (much closer to the left wall than the right) which confuses the sound stage a bit since the reflections arrive at the seating position at differing times and intensities.