Didn't reliaze azimuth is that important - pics

[spectral]

I spent about 2 hours last night adjusting azimuth with the help of the Revox, and then VTA and VTF again. Take a look at the pictures - the arm is clearly off now, but the stylus is dead on vertical and measurements verify the same (Analogue Productions Test LP, 1kHz)... I am hearing a wider soundstage - could it be???

I'd say go buy that Fozgometer...

 

[FOUNTAIN]

Excellent point Spectral! If the azimuth is off then it really can play havoc on your soundstage. I know my eyes were opened when I borrowed my dealers Fozgometer and adjusted mine by the numbers rather than visually and the difference was astounding!!!! While mine does not look quite as tilted as your picture shows, the slightest tilt goes from ok to WOW in just a tiny movement. I've gotten it in this spot before without the Fozgometer, but it sure is extremely hard to do by trial and error. Now I know why sometimes my soundstage sounded so good, and then after an adjustment to something that would affect the azimuth, the soundstage would collapse. Visually the setting looked identical, but there was a slight movement that would have to be made in order to restore the incredible soundstage that I enjoyed the night before. Now if I need to change something out then I'll just pop in the Fozgometer and confirm the azimuth in just a couple of minutes without the guessing game.


Glen

 

[tonepub]

Soundstage and channel balance. Have you fine tuned how level your table is as well? An easy tweek but yields a big gain in sound...

Have to say I'm really loving the fozgometer!

 

[spectral]

Yeah leveling the 'table was the first thing I ever did. I am also getting that VPI outter ring clamp in the next couple of weeks.

 

[twich54]

Yeah leveling the 'table was the first thing I ever did. I am also getting that VPI outter ring clamp in the next couple of weeks.

interesting find on your azimuth ! .... agreed spot - on leveling of plinth / platter is first and foremost.

You will appreciate the outter ring for sure ! ..... if you don't already have it, I myself can't recomend it more, that being the VPI SDS unit. Without question the best upgrade to my VPI set-up to date.

 

[spectral]

Yes the SDS has been there from day one - there is no high end 'table, in my mind, w/o a power supply. I had measured the SDS's accuracy to 0.1% with a voltmeter, as per older posts from a year ago, while the table was still young. Since I had to recently lower the speed by only a tiny fraction for both 33 and 45 (parts breaking in?), I would guess it hasn't changed materially.

I really wish VPI made better belts - on mine, you can easily see variations in thickness, with the naked eye. Anyone know of better aftermarket belts? I am looking for something like a Basis-quality belt.

 

[twich54]

I am looking for something like a Basis-quality belt.

superb TT's for sure, matched with an incredible arm !

 

[Bernard]

I myself can't recomend it more, that being the VPI SDS unit. Without question the best upgrade to my VPI set-up to date.

It's amazing how fast they sell when they go up on Audiogon. I have the older/vintage PLC.

 

[Bernard]

I spent about 2 hours last night adjusting azimuth with the help of the Revox, and then VTA and VTF again. Take a look at the pictures - the arm is clearly off now, but the stylus is dead on vertical and measurements verify the same (Analogue Productions Test LP, 1kHz)... I am hearing a wider soundstage - could it be???

I'd say go buy that Fozgometer...

I wonder how much the arm being "off" has to do with its being a unipivot.

 

[spectral]

I wonder how much the arm being "off" has to do with its being a unipivot.

Everything. If it were gimbabled, one would have to twist the headshell, if possible, otherwise SOL.

 

[slowGEEZR]

When I look at the pictures, it appears the cartridge itself is the culprit, not the tonearm.

 

[slowGEEZR]

Were the meters on the Revox calibrated prior to doing this?

 

[spectral]

When I look at the pictures, it appears the cartridge itself is the culprit, not the tonearm.

Not sure what you mean. It's always the cartridge, meaning the stylus/cantilever assembly can never realistically be perfectly set orthogonally against the cartridge body - perhaps much more expensive cartridges address this, but I would say perfect orthogonal, symmetric setting is rare. Jeff and Stereophile discuss this in their Fozgometer reviews.

 

[spectral]

Were the meters on the Revox calibrated prior to doing this?

In an unscientific way way yes - I played a 1kHz test tone in the CD player first. The misalignment was clearly audible before by simply playing first a left-channel-only and then a right-channel-only 1kHz test tone on the LP and listening to the output of the respectively-opposite channel through the tape loop with gain set to max (i.e. extremely amplified). While the noise was also amplified, the cross-talk difference was clearly audible.

 

[spectral]

Here's an excerpt from Fremer's Fozgometer review: "When you both minimize crosstalk and arrange for it to be equal in both L-R and R-L directions, you maximize the soundstage width and the precision of the imaging"

 

[slowGEEZR]

Not sure what you mean. It's always the cartridge, meaning the stylus/cantilever assembly can never realistically be perfectly set orthogonally against the cartridge body - perhaps much more expensive cartridges address this, but I would say perfect orthogonal, symmetric setting is rare. Jeff and Stereophile discuss this in their Fozgometer reviews.

I was referring to the comment about how much the arm being "off" has to do with its being a unipivot. I guess for a gimbaled arm, the cartridge would have looked off kilter instead of the arm. One thing I noticed from the photo though, is that type of cartridge, with a screw in the front, would seem to me to be more apt to have the cantilever assembly turned a little from the main cartridge body. In other words, imagine turning that screw clockwise and you can imagine the cantilever assembly also turning clockwise, within the main cartridge assembly. Of course, I'm assuming, probably incorrectly, that screw does tighten the cantilever assembly.

 

[slowGEEZR]

Here's an excerpt from Fremer's Fozgometer review: "When you both minimize crosstalk and arrange for it to be equal in both L-R and R-L directions, you maximize the soundstage width and the precision of the imaging"

Very cool, I must get one.

 

[FOUNTAIN]

Very cool, I must get one.

Steve I think you will enjoy using it, but even better I bet you will love the results. The one I bought recently has been an eye opening experience. I now believe that if you set up your own table or if you have your dealer set it up for you then this tool, or something equivalent, should be used. In my opinion it is of equal importance as a protractor, only this is for the azimuth. Too bad the cost is a little on the high side right now, but its ease of use and results are hard to fault. This experience, for me, has completely changed my mind about setting up a cartridge according to its appearance and that the best way is to do it by the numbers objectively.

Glen

 

[spectral]

his experience, for me, has completely changed my mind about setting up a cartridge according to its appearance and that the best way is to do it by the numbers objectively.
Glen

Same here - just numbers... The pictures I took were an afterthought as I was preparing to post, not really believing that I could get a decent close-up rendering of the stylus sitting perpendicular to the LP. Although in the end we are probably talking about 2-3 degrees angle offset for the arm, which still makes it now visually unappealing, the result in soundstage width expansion that I think I am hearing is well worth it - and there is no way I am going to A/B this test :ROFL:

 

[FOUNTAIN]

Same here - just numbers... The pictures I took were an afterthought as I was preparing to post, not really believing that I could get a decent close-up rendering of the stylus sitting perpendicular to the LP. Although in the end we are probably talking about 2-3 degrees angle offset for the arm, which still makes it now visually unappealing, the result in soundstage width expansion that I think I am hearing is well worth it - and there is no way I am going to A/B this test :ROFL:

BTW, very good job on the pictures. Visuals are always a big help in seeing what ends up being the resulting change. For me to do an A/B comparison is fairly easy though since my azimuth can be adjusted on the fly without any problems. In fact I have went downstairs to listen several times to confirm what I thought I had heard just to be sure. With my turntable, Well Tempered Amadeus, I can change the azimuth to where it appears completely level horzontially or put a mirror underneath the cantilever and check it by doing "the "mirror method". When I did the horizontal method I would use a coffee straw laying it across the flat part of my cartride and then would look at it on eye level along with checking the mirror underneath for any sign that the cart was not level. I can then hook up the fozgometer and perform their method and clearly read a fairly large disparity between the two channels as I play the corresponding 1khz tone. Of course I have listened between the two methods and there was a noticable improvement that you alluded too as well. This really is a little gem that I will keep.