Detachable Headshells.

[Victor]

....A blessing or the "Work of the Devil" ?

Back in the formative days of modern hi-fi, many people used "S" shaped Rega and SME arms. Superbly engineered, these arms employed detachable headshells - a nifty convenience - but all the efficiencies of engineering were undone(?) by the use of a compliant washer to interface the headshell to the arm tube.
Today, we are seeing a resurgence in the detachable headshell format (Jelco and the new SME "J" shaped arm) while there are plenty of Ortofon users still at large.
I suppose this is really a 3 stage question :
a) How detrimental was the influence of the rubber washer?
b) Are the new generation designs any better in this respect than the originals? (Note SME's advertising blurb "...able to support today's high performance carts...")
c) ..and the 64-million-dollar-flame-proof-suit-question...can detachable designs ever be as good as fixed headshell designs ?

Given the improbable success of the Cartridgeman's Isolator, I'm open to persuasion on this one

 

[Jeff Zaret]

A tough question to answer. I can speak for the SME arms. I have had several and SME has manufactured both kinds. My guess would also be the application as in cartridge, table and how often the cartridges are replaced. I think SME still manufactures both kinds. I am sure they have their place.

I can honestly say I could not tell the difference in sound. As for the washer, I would imagine it is the same which would be dependent on the cartridge and table compliance/compatibility.

Is there an audible difference? I am sure there is. I am sure it is measurable but can one hear that difference? Is it enough to really make you run out and spend money on even more small changes. l think that may be the questionable difference.

My personal opinion in this is if you hear a difference fine and if not fine. If everything else is to your liking then you have done a great job and enjoy the music.

Jeff

 

[Victor]

Hi Jeff,
I was distracted by your avatar (man being executed by cannon firing squad ) and found myself wondering what crime he'd committed to deserve this punishment :

- Playing his MLs with the covers on?
- Listening to Girls Aloud in public on his MP3 player?
- Asking daft questions about SME arms!

This could be the subject of a separate Thread in it's own right
A lot of audiophiles swear that the SME V is the best pickup arm in the world as opposed to the loyal following enjoyed by the Graham Phantom. When it comes to detectable differences on tonearms....I became a believer in minutiae the moment I heard the effects of switching from aluminium cartridge screws to heavier high-tensile steel screws screwed up using the "tighten it 'til it breaks then slacken off" philosophy (it afforded greater rigidity but there could have been other setup related reasons for the difference). I've since been cured and have moved away from this destructive tendency in favour of just "nipping up" everything, from Main bearings to cartridge screws.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Victor,
I found it much too tiring to keep chasing the final little bit and just try and remain happy with what I have and when I can afford it move up the audio chain. Personally I am really happy where I am rightnow and of course broke too.

I know my avatar is hard to see but it is "The Three Stooges" and the caption above it says "You Will Love Analog"

Jeff

 

[Victor]

Victor,
I know my avatar is hard to see but it is "The Three Stooges" and the caption above it says "You Will Love Analog"

Jeff

....Jeff....I like it
I know what you mean about extracting the last couple of increments....non-enthusiasts must think we're insane. Today I had a long session and just sat back and enjoyed it. My reverie was only interrupted when, during one record, a lump of fluff the size of a sheep became momentarily wedged under the stylus almost severing the connection. I thought it sounded a bit too harsh to be "end of side" distortion. A few moments later all was well.
:music:

 

[tonepub]

As someone who uses an SME iV.Vi and 309 on the same table (TW Acustic Raven TWO) and has put identical cartridges (Lyra Skala) side by side on both arms, the diff between the two arms is not as much as SME would like you to think.

Granted the iV.Vi has better internal wiring, a solid arm tube and better bearings, the 309 is really no slouch. You lose a little bit of ultimate focus and a little bit of that last bit of bass weight, but I could easily live with a 309....

And as they often go for sale very inexpensively, I think the 309 is one of the arm deals of the century!

 

[Victor]

As someone who uses an SME iV.Vi and 309 on the same table (TW Acustic Raven TWO) and has put identical cartridges (Lyra Skala) side by side on both arms, the diff between the two arms is not as much as SME would like you to think.

Granted the iV.Vi has better internal wiring, a solid arm tube and better bearings, the 309 is really no slouch. You lose a little bit of ultimate focus and a little bit of that last bit of bass weight, but I could easily live with a 309....

And as they often go for sale very inexpensively, I think the 309 is one of the arm deals of the century!

Thanks Jeff.....You've put forward a very persuasive argument. I've often wondered about the impact on the bearings of detaching/re-attaching the headshell - although many Dealers maintain that it should be possible to tighten cartridge screws, arm in situ, without damaging the bearings (it would be a brave man that tries though !)
Kind regards................................Victor

 

[Victor]

Jeff....apologies for the across-Thread question : Did you "go Commando" on your Raven, or use the Millenium Mat ?

 

[tonepub]

Hi there:

Not sure what "commando" means...

I've tried it with and without mat. So far it's really pretty close, so I'm going without mat.

 

[Victor]

Hi there:

Not sure what "commando" means...

I've tried it with and without mat. So far it's really pretty close, so I'm going without mat.

..and I misguidedly thought the expression originated in the US!!

"Going Commando" is a reference to...er....the practice of not wearing underpants (or lingerie around the nether regions in the ladies' case), or in hifi, using a bare platter....

 

[Bernard]

..and I misguidedly thought the expression originated in the US!!

I knew what you meant, though of course I am not in the US. I thought it was a unique way of expressing it

 

[Victor]

I knew what you meant, though of course I am not in the US. I thought it was a unique way of expressing it

Bernard...you are clearly a man of some sophistication