dealer rant..

[timm]

I go into my local ML dealer that had the summits in there the last time I was there. So, I asked if they had the summit x... 'Nope'....What about the Spires?...'Nope'.... They had Vantages and Vistas... I had never heard the Vantages - and they sounded very nice. I really do like the way the bass integrates with this new (not so new anymore?) Logan design. I really wish he would have still had the summit - so I could have a listen again... but no luck.... Anyway - this place is going downhill fast. they had their vantages hooked to a carousel marantz cd player with some very old amp - which I never heard of. They had a denon turntable w/denon cartridge - and again I was very unimpressed with vinyl.

The dealers around my place just don't seem to get it. It should be a place where people feel a big 'welcome mat' to come in and listen anytime they want to...Instead, it becomes this...'well are you going to buy something today or what?' situation when they can't even put together a decent system on their floor. It is pathetic. I avoid the places now because they make me feel like I am using them. Maybe if they could somehow be competitive? A guy had a smokin' deal on some B&W 803s - 6900 (retail 9K) - but they are slightly used... Get the same speaker on the 'gon from a dealer for 4800.... And yes, I value their service...but for 2K? The value just isn't there and it makes it difficult to take the plunge. (and I ain't buyin' no B&W speaker -- it was all he had basically).

I think a dealer that isn't actively marketing itself on the internet or thru national advertising will be lost. I am sure this dealer that I know has been in business for probably 30-40 years will be out of business shortly. It is a shame - but the way of the world.

 

[CCH]

We have a dealer in our area that I simply will not visit any longer. Almost every time I have been in the store over the years I have been challenged or confronted in some way. I'd think they'd be trying to make me feel welcome and give me reasons to want to buy from them. I realize that they don’t wish to invest time in people who aren’t actually interested in purchasing from them, but they seem awfully quick to make that judgment, greeting potential customers with obvious suspicion and even hostility. I know from talking with others that my experience there is not unusual.

To their credit, most of the other dealers I know are friendly, helpful and accommodating, and I have at times gone out of my way to buy from them when I could have gotten the same item cheaper and/or faster elsewhere. Thankfully, the store I am referring to above is the exception.

 

[DTB300]

..... but they seem awfully quick to make that judgment, greeting potential customers with obvious suspicion and even hostility. I know from talking with others that my experience there is not unusual.

In Maryland?

If we are talking about the same place (SW?), then it use to be a good place, but then all the good salespeople left about 3-4 years ago. Basically a new partner came on board (my guess with no facts to back it up) and the rest was history. Previous sales staff was SUPERB, but they are all gone now.

Today if you do not walk in with a check filled out and signed, they basically ignore you. They love the "rich and no clue" clients who want all the top stuff, will just sign a check, but have no clue about room, system setup, synergy of components, etc.

 

[twich54]

Well, FWIW, Overture has yet to have a pair of CLX'x, Spire's or Summit X,s in (although I'm doing my best to get a 'Logan Weekend' put together). They have been somewhat vague intheir reasoning, telling me "of the changes at the top of Company and the direction they are heading" ???
Is anyone aware of personal changes at the "Top", is Mr Penrod still in the fold ??

While I've known Terry and his staff a long time, they can at times get a little 'uppity' with respect to their product line that they carry vs. what their neighbor down the street sell !

 

[Gordon]

My wife and I walked into this place in Kennsington, MD. The folks in that place made every effort to make us feel like dirt. We're not bums, but we're also not in the same financial bracket as the people who live in that area. No disrespect intended for those who may live there. We left after about 15 minutes of this torture.

There is another place I like to go in Bethesda on St. Elmo St. The guys there really made us feel welcome. We talked audio, places to eat locally and of course, a bit of politics! We've spent quite a bit of money at that place and I am willing to support the B&M stores even if it costs a bit more. He does not carry ML which is a disappointment, but he had nothing bad to say about them and did not push his lines on us.

Gordon

 

[CCH]

Interesting how we've all had the same experience with this dealer, Gordon. (The first one you mentioned, that is.) It is a wonder that they stay in business.

I agree with you about the Bethesda store as well. They're a good operation.

 

[DTB300]

My wife and I walked into this place in Kennsington, MD. The folks in that place made every effort to make us feel like dirt. We're not bums, but we're also not in the same financial bracket as the people who live in that area. No disrespect intended for those who may live there. We left after about 15 minutes of this torture.

They did not use to be like this. It was one of the best in the area, but then the new partner came on board and all the good salespeople left within 3 months of each other. Now they just want the people with no clue and open checkbooks. And based on they are still open, have lots of equipment, they do not care about the ones who know.

There is another place I like to go in Bethesda on St. Elmo St. The guys there really made us feel welcome. We talked audio, places to eat locally and of course, a bit of politics! We've spent quite a bit of money at that place and I am willing to support the B&M stores even if it costs a bit more. He does not carry ML which is a disappointment, but he had nothing bad to say about them and did not push his lines on us.

It is a strange layout to this store, but the people are very nice and they have some nice equipment. I would recommend this store

 

[Diamonds]

I have a couple great dealers in Phoenix and some terrible ones. We have 0 good dealers in Tucson. But remember the internet is killing these guys.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Well, here's my take.

All other things being equal, good customer service will determine who survives and who doesn't.

If folks with more money than brains choose to buy from stores that espouse / support the "show me the money" attitude, that stores long term survival is dubious at best.

One need only look at the color of the sale person's nose to make a determination.

Elitism can only go so far, especially in our current economic situation.

And frankly, if those stores fail, I could care less. They deserve it.

GG

 

[timm]

I guess my issue was that they want me to buy from them... and the only advantage I see from buying from them is to get a good demo ...or demos out of them so that I can figure out if the product I am listening to is discernably better than what I have. I have not had any reliability issues - and if I did, I would send it back to the manufacturer. Since I apparently couldn't demo a Spire or a Summit X or an old Summit - and they choose to hook up crap sources - aren't they more or less pushing me to the internet for a purchase? In either case it is a blind test...except in one - I pay a lot less money. Thats a no-brainer isn't it?

and my point about vinyl -- I would love somebody to show me why it is superior - it just seems that whenever someone has something hooked up - it sounds flat, uninvolving and noisy. This is from an AUDIOPHILE store. The guy had a direct to disc album - and he even admitted it sounded like junk... What do these guys do ALL DAY?

Had another local place with a 2K cd player sitting out on a shelf next to their counter... 'Can I listen to that?'....'Well, I don't know where we'd hook it up...' You've got to be KIDDING ME????

The rant continues.....

 

[slowGEEZR]

I guess my issue ...

and my point about vinyl -- I would love somebody to show me why it is superior - it just seems that whenever someone has something hooked up - it sounds flat, uninvolving and noisy. This is from an AUDIOPHILE store. The guy had a direct to disc album - and he even admitted it sounded like junk... What do these guys do ALL DAY?

The rant continues.....

Timm,

I know what you mean, why is that? Why can't they take the time to do vinyl right? Here's another one. At the RMAF last October, I was sooo looking forward to hearing the $150,000 Clearaudio turntable. And what did they choose to play? A record that had more scratches, tics and pops than just anything in my forty year old collection! Let's see, they were using $180K speakers, very expensive amps, etc. and played a scratched to hell record. Yeah, impressive. (Actually, when another record was played, it really was impressive.)

 

[MDSPHOTO]

Banned

In Maryland?

If we are talking about the same place (SW?), then it use to be a good place, but then all the good salespeople left about 3-4 years ago. Basically a new partner came on board and the rest was history.

Today if you do not walk in with a check filled out and signed, they basically ignore you. They love the "rich and no clue" clients who want all the top stuff, will just sign a check, but have no clue about room, system setup, synergy of components, etc.

I was actually banned from this store many years ago. I was haggling over the price on a set of MLs with them and another dealer and ended up buying from the other dealer. I went in there one day and they told me to get out and not come back. The sad thing for them was that I had $450 cash in my pocket and had planned to walk out of there that day with a Rotel CD player. I never went back and tried to steer all my friends to a quaint little, customer friendly, shop north of the city.

 

[Shub]

Kensington store

Yes, this place is ridiculous. A couple of months ago I called to ask them if they sold tube amps and that I was going to pair it with my ML Vista's. The person who answered the phone asked me if I purchased the spearkers from them and when I said no, he said " I'm sorry, I can't help you any further"

!!!!!

Unbelievable!

 

[DTB300]

I went in there one day and they told me to get out and not come back.

I have not been back to that store in many years now. While I think about going back at times to see what they have, I never seem to show up. :devil:

My last experience: I was looking to purchase a new Processor at the time. I went in on a Saturday about an hour before closing time to see about auditioning a Processor at home over the weekend. I know they are closed on Sunday, and I would return the Processor right when then opened on Monday. I respect a shop and their hours and the ability to have the unit available for listening during store hours.

I walk in and one of the new sales people (Scott if I remember correctly) is sitting at the front desk web browsing.

While reading the screen he says: "Can I help you" (never looking up from the screen)

I say: "I heard "X" processor the other day and I would like to audition at home over the weekend and bring it back on Monday when you open"

Without ever looking up from his screen, he states "we do not allow home auditions."

I say: "How would I know if the processor was better than I was currently using?" Right as I am finishing my statement, the phone rings and he picks up and starts talking. It is VERY obvious this is not a business related call. This goes on for a few minutes and he still totally ignores me, so I just turn around and walk out of the store, never to return.

Over the years I had spent a few thousand $$$ there, not earth shattering, but I always gave them a chance. With the past salespeople they would always treat me with respect, always try to get my business, but they also realized they could only offer me a certain price point. That I realized and accepted, but since they always treatment me so well, I always gave them first chance. Not anymore.

All of this must not be a problem for them as their doors are still open as they are located very close to my home and I do drive by on a regular basis.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
I was on a business trip and actually stopped by there as well. I assume you guys are talking about a store that rhymes with found dorks?

If it is, I actually had a eerily similar experience. When I first walked in, they could not be nicer. When I told them I lived over a thousand miles South, I was invisible. I must say they do have nice gear. However, to reinforce the worst stereotypes of high end audio is lamentable. To think they are a ML "Signature" dealer.
Cheers,
ML

 

[DTB300]

Yepper them's the one...

They do carry some very nice equipment and have some nice sounding rooms too. But this current business/customer attention practice must be working as their doors are still open.

They also state they carry a lot of company products, but in reality, they carry just a few of them, but they can "get it for you" if you want to pay for it. Hmmm, sure would be nice to hear it first. But it is this "educated" client that probably scares them the most.

 

[Tube60]

There's an audio store in Woodland Hills, Ca, that will be nameless in this. Twelve years ago I went in there to ask questions, check out gear, and to purchase product. I went in well dressed, with a good looking woman at my side, and we'd stepped out of a nice car. We were treated like we'd just crawled out from under a rock. But a local gang member came in with gold chains and the backwards ball cap thing going on, and they were all over him like a bear on a trash can. We turned around and left. Oh and we got the hairy eyeball from the homeboy's body guards at the front door.
Over the holidays I was in the area visiting family, and guess what? The place is still in business! No doubt kept solvent by a very, ummm, select clientele! But I very naively wonder how places like that stay in business looking at the big picture.
The local store here in SLO is the exact opposite. I haven't been in there in a while though. I hope they're doing okay.

 

[eknuds01]

This is a rather interesting thread.

It seems like many of us have been slighted by snooty sales reps over the years for one reason or another. Yet, there are dealers that provide excellent customer service and outstanding products.

Having said that, the internet (places such as Audiogon) must be very tough for these guys.

Do you think the attitude toward the 'little guy' (most of us on this forum) has changed because the dealers think that many of us might audition their new amp/CD player/speakers at home only to turn around and buy a floor model from another place, or maybe last year's model at a hefty discount? I am not claiming that anyone here does that religiously, but I think that sort of thing is on the dealer's mind.

In my opinion, the other issue that challenges many dealers is that the 'pool' of potential buyers is very, very small. How many people actually buy new high-end audio gear? It can't be all that many. There are a lot of great products, stores, dealers, etc and they are all chasing a limited group (or pool of money).

Having said that, there's no reason to treat anyone like a second class citizen. There's no reason to be rude and dismiss a client, or buyer, because he/she may not drop 5k without batting an eyelash.

If a boutique or other high end store only wants to cater to certain clients, then maybe they should restrict their hours and only allow customers in after appointments have been made.

For those of you that own or manage small businesses, how would you handle this? I happen to agree with the other posters stating that in the end, the stores with knowledgeable staff and good service will be the last ones standing. But, there are exceptions. I have seen stores with excellent sales reps and great products go out of business (Sound Advice in Naples, FL). But that wasn't entirely their fault - Tweeter bought them out and when Tweeter went under, so did Sound Advice.

 

[Tube60]

For those of you that own or manage small businesses, how would you handle this?

I've been in the retail business for over 20 years now. The one important thing is to treat the customer like family. So what if the customer is a jerk, and goes to another store to save a little money; stay the course with good service and they may come back. And they're likely to mention their positive experience to others. No customer's money stinks worse than any other's in the end. Any salesperson acting the in way that's been portrayed in this thread vis a vis the negative experiences related, would be fired if they did not change their ways, if I were in charge of or owned one of those businesses.

 

[topofroc]

@Tube60:
How could you tell that the other customer in the store was gang member?