Considering multichannel analog preamp

[Brian_74]

I really want to upgrade from my H/K AVR which is performing all my pre/pro duties. It's 8 years old and I have a second room it could be moved to. I am torn with deciding whether I buy a higher quality (Classe,Simaudio,etc), but slightly outdated pre/pro with a good analog section or whether I upgrade to a new, probably lesser quality pre/pro like a run-of-the-mill Denon or Onkyo and use it for decoding the lossless formats.
With the former option, I would invest in better blu ray and cd sources with good analog sections and have them perform decoding and DAC duties. I don't care at all about having video transcoding, switching, or none of the video features of an AVR. The only video sources I have are Bluray, Sat, XBOX360 which are all already HDMI, highdef. Personally, I think video should be handled by a separate processor, if at all. Don't really want the amplifier section on an AVR either unless it is defeatable such as new Denon 4311ci. Hence I am really interested in a separate pre/pro. Granted, if I get an older processor, I'm missing out on some of the room correction and networking/audio streaming stuff a new pre/pro have, but I guess I'm willing to sacrifice that right now to get a processor with a good analog section.

The Cary Cinema 11a would be perfect for me, if it were not ridden with software bugs related to DSP and the new audio formats.

Then I started thinking about multichannel analog preamps. Let's forget about processing at all, and just handle everything from crossover management to decoding and D/A with the source players. Then as technology keeps changing, all I may need to do is buy a new player or additional component with analog outputs to handle the new technology

Looking around, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of choices in multi-channel analog preamps. Most of them are older models as well. Here's what I could find:

Belcanto Pre6
McCormack
Bryston (don't recall model)
McIntosh C45
Parasound Halo P7
Conrad Johnson (don't recall model)​

The plan all along has been to build a decent 5.1 surround setup with the Sunfire TGA-5200 and a decent pre/pro, and then a really nice 2 ch preamp (like a BAT) with HT bypass for music use. If I can find an older pre/pro with a good analog section, that will "get me by" until I can make the next upgrade with the dedicated 2 ch preamp.

Is my thinking all wrong? Should I concentrate on the 2ch path first? Am I missing much with the lossless audio formats in Bluray movies? I do believe I'm missing alot with the analog section that my H/K has compared to a higher end processor. Can you guys recommend some older pre/pro models with good analog sections? They probably need to have 2 sets of multichannel inputs for connection to both a SACD player and Bluray.

Whew, long post, but I look forward to your advice.

Brian

 

[timm]

If you don't need the multi sets of multi channel inputs your options go way up. An old sunfire pre might work well for you. They have analog 7.1 inputs. I do exactly this with my bluray player. I boght my Sony bluray player 2 years ago and it was difficult finding a player that had 7.1 analog outs. You also had to be careful that it would actually send the Dolby HD or the master dsd signal thru the analog outs. Not all the players do. Not sure if things have changed or if it is more difficult to find a lpayer with the analog outs.

 

[timm]

Just an addition. I think by going this route you can concentrate on 2 ch AND multi at the same time!! that is what I did since I also got a Cary slp 98 for my 2 ch listening

 

[Brian_74]

Just an addition. I think by going this route you can concentrate on 2 ch AND multi at the same time!! that is what I did since I also got a Cary slp 98 for my 2 ch listening

That was my thought too! Since I want better analog all around why not kill two birds with one stone. Any suggestions on a multi-channel pre? Are Sunfire considered good preamp for analog?

 

[timm]

I guess 'good' is relative.... Is it as good as my cary?? No way...The cary brought things out of my sunfire amp that I didn't know it had.... For movies - it is perfect for me... My blu-ray player passes the DTS HD Master etc... thru my analog connections - it sounds great. I have a sunfire Theater Grand III...

Your other possible option - and there will be people here to help on that - is the Emotiva pre-amps....

Caveat: I like watching movies - and want to hear the presence and depth and the big booms etc.... However, I am not as discerning as I am with 2 channel music. My opinion is the same as yours -- save some money on the HT processor - let the blu-ray player do the decoding - get a killer 2 channel pre... If I was getting something new for movies - I would take a hard look at the emotiva line.... If I wanted to spend even less - I would look at the used Sunfire Theater Grand III and up lineup.... Others may have more input on other used controllers (Lexicon,Theta etc....) which have a higher price tag...

Edit: One note the Sunfire TG III does not have a pass thru... I created 2 seperate systems.... One with my MLs for 2 channel and one with my old paradigms for movies.... I had 2 Carver amps from my college days that handle the HT plus my Sunfire Sig handles the center channel...and I have the TG III + sony blu ray doing the processing. So I had a bit more flexibility using my older amps (which are still quite good for HT - IMHO)... I wanted the tv out of the stereo system....

 

[JMAUSGP]

For the money and the quality of multi-channel sound, the analog McCormack MAP-1 is hard to beat.

It has two 5.1 multi-channel inputs. Plus you can hook up a great DAC, like the PS Audio Digital Link III and then you can process any 2-channel stereo source in to ARM 5.1 surround sound. This sounds very close to SACD or DVD Audio. So far IMHO it is the best surround sound processor I have heard.

And then the really cool part is that Steve McCormack with do an upgrade on the MAP-1, at his SMC Audio site that will make your jaw drop. It turns your MAP-1 in to a brand new machine. It was good before but with the Steve McCormack upgrade it is absolutely phenomenal. You can even hook vinyl in to the MAP-1 and turn it in to 5.1 surround sound.

I am running MAP-1, with SimAudio Moon Titan 5 channel amp, Simaudio Moon Orbiter Universal Disc player, PS Audio DAC with level 4 mods, Vinyl, Oppo 83 Universal Player with 4 CLXs, 1 stage and JL Audio Gotham. If the McCormack MAP-1 was weak, I would think I could tell.

Google McCormack MAP1 and you will find multiple reviews that should answer any of your questions. I think that the MAP-1 handling your sound and going direct to your display with HDMI for Video is a decent way to go, but as always YMMV

 

[timm]

Joe. How is the ps audio with the level 4 mod? Can't remember the modders name but it has gotten good press on audioasylum

 

[Juppe]

concider the Holfi pre 1.5.1 - all analog, batteria powered. i have conected the analog signal directly from Oppo bd83. find it secondhand in Denmark or Germany!

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10474

 

[Juppe]

http://www.dba.dk/forforstaerker-holfi-pre-nb/id-69754191/

=$2.000!!!!!

 

[Spike]

Conrad Johnson MET1

Analog multi-channel pre-amp with 6-channels of tubes!!
CJ MET1 multichannel linestage

Spike

 

[Brian_74]

Analog multi-channel pre-amp with 6-channels of tubes!!
CJ MET1 multichannel linestage

Spike

Yep, that was the beauty I had pictured in my head. If you're an audio guy who enjoys movies but doesn't want to sacrifice stereo or multichannel sound quality it just seems crazy to try and chase the surround processing format games at the preamp level.

 

[JMAUSGP]

Joe. How is the ps audio with the level 4 mod? Can't remember the modders name but it has gotten good press on audioasylum

Timm,

PS Audio with Level 4 Mods is very good, to the point where you have to spend triple or quadruple to get better than the PS Audio DAC.

Then when you combine it with the Steve McCormack upgraded MAP-1 you basically have two brand new, close to state of the art multi-channel pre-amp and DAC.

It is so good that for the time being I have stopped looking for anything in that area of the audio spectrum to play with my 5.1 CLX system.

In fact when you run a two-channel source through the PS Audio and then in to the MAP-1, you can select the ARM circuit and get 5.1 surround sound that is very very close to straight SACD and DVD audio as a source.

It really is that good. I have had a couple of audiophiles over and without telling them what I was doing, they were fooled by the PS Audio with level 4 mods and the ARM circuit on the MAP-1. I even demoed it to Tonepub and he was fooled, I mean impressed.

 

[timm]

Thanks for the response... Who did the mods? I recall looking into a modded DL3 awhile back...It was by a guy that used to work for them i believe?? He had up to stage 4 mods.... I have a denon 5900 universal... I just wonder how much better - if at all - it would sound spitting the digital out for cds to a DL3??? Do you normally use the 96/24 setting?

 

[Brian_74]

When, if ever, will we see DAC with HDMI inputs?

 

[JMAUSGP]

Good question, but with Oppo especially a modded one for doing all the new codecs and you can add a good to great universal disc player if the Oppo is not up to snuff musically for you, well you really don't need one.

The MAP-1 has two 6 channel inputs so you got it covered either way.

 

[JMAUSGP]

Thanks for the response... Who did the mods? I recall looking into a modded DL3 awhile back...It was by a guy that used to work for them i believe?? He had up to stage 4 mods.... I have a denon 5900 universal... I just wonder how much better - if at all - it would sound spitting the digital out for cds to a DL3??? Do you normally use the 96/24 setting?

Cullen does the mods and yes, 96/24 seems to sound the best by my ear, YMMV.