Some upgrades make sense. I upgraded the coils on my 911 turbo to those from the gt2. Some might think that makes no sense, but it does increase performance. I guess some might argue it doesn't. Guess I should understand this more.
CLX: power cables
- Thread starter Paul172
- Start date
Help Support MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum:
Thanks for the advice Roberto. I am a theoretical physicist with a Ph.D. from Princeton. I work on mulitferroic materials. I know about voltage and current.
Best wishes.
If only I had that when by brother comes to visit.
I respect what you have written jazzish. I'm a retired custom furniture builder and restaurant owner but it doesn't change the laws of electrical theory.
If people want to use better cables, please do, if you don't, then by all means use what makes you happy. It is a subject that is a personal choice and there will never be one answer fits all. No matter what each of us personally believe.
Please don't misunderstand, hearing that someone tried something different and it worked better for them, is something we all like to hear.
Brad
spkrdctr
Well-known member
If people really want to spend money on very, very good cables of all types, then they should visit the Blue Jeans Cable website. They deal in science and tested verified product. 98% of all audio wires, cables, interconnects and other stuff are pure marketing BS. Read up at audioholics website. Many marketers use an exotic idea from extremely high frequency stuff and try to apply it to audio gear. It does NOT apply. You can hook up a scope to the output of your power supply inside your gear and look at the signals magnified thousands of times to see if any hash, noise,static or other bad stuff is carried over to your audio signal side. The audio signal side is what matters. You would find that it doesn't carry over in decent gear. Of course I'm not talking about cheap chinese gear (junk) but decent mid grade and up audio gear. For example, let's say that I want to buy a super duper mega awesome speaker wire and exotic banana plugs that were taken up into orbit and brought back to sell to the public. Orbiting the Earth realigned the electrons in the wires for better sound. Then to test, just look at the signal at the output connections from your amp versus the other end of the the speaker wire. What? NO difference? But what if there was a picovolt of difference in the signal? No speakers made on planet earth can tell the difference or play that difference. Speakers are like a huge blanket thrown over very ,very well made equipment that puts out incredibly nice clean audio signals. The awesome signal then goes to a speaker that on its best day could not reproduce diddly squat in signal difference. (OK, a slight exaggeration) . But I think you all get my point. Almost all good audio equipment puts out pretty good to VERY good signals to the speakers, and then the speaker just renders it accordingly to its slow clumsy audio reproduction process with crossovers, wave guides, magnets, spiders, surrounds and other engineering stuff. etc. A frequency graph will show that the sweep (output of the speaker) has at least 5 db minimum, many times 10 db or more of difference across the sweep. Many have big V shaped suck outs too. Then we place this pesky speaker that is lumbering along trying to reproduce that awesome clean signal into horror of horrors A ROOM!
Well, by golly, there goes any sense of accuracy in sound reproduction. Doing a frequency sweep from the listeners position now brings in very large suck outs, cancellations, reflections and multiplying room nodes ect.
I say all this to show how the industry is VERY good at getting a fairly pristine signal to the speaker, only to have the speaker and the room pretty much ruin it. But, our brain fills in frequencies and "normalizes" everything so that our systems sound very good. So as I like to say, spend what you want on what you like and don't worry about it. Whatever your new purchase does to the signal, your brain will override any negatives and normalize it for you. This brain normalization is HUGE! The human brain/ear function is amazing. It can fill in and cover up an amazing amount of frequency dips. So, in the end, you have spent money on a new tweak or wire, cable etc and it will not hurt how your system sounds. Your brain takes over and fixes it! Long live the brain!
I just had a morning with a very large cup of coffee and some time to kill on the keyboard. I figured I'd ramble on and see if it helps anyone. Remember, even if I would not pay money for a big tweak, doesn't mean that you can't. You will end up with a better sounding system to you. So in the end, all's well that ends well. This was just a long winded way of saying that
Well, by golly, there goes any sense of accuracy in sound reproduction. Doing a frequency sweep from the listeners position now brings in very large suck outs, cancellations, reflections and multiplying room nodes ect.
I say all this to show how the industry is VERY good at getting a fairly pristine signal to the speaker, only to have the speaker and the room pretty much ruin it. But, our brain fills in frequencies and "normalizes" everything so that our systems sound very good. So as I like to say, spend what you want on what you like and don't worry about it. Whatever your new purchase does to the signal, your brain will override any negatives and normalize it for you. This brain normalization is HUGE! The human brain/ear function is amazing. It can fill in and cover up an amazing amount of frequency dips. So, in the end, you have spent money on a new tweak or wire, cable etc and it will not hurt how your system sounds. Your brain takes over and fixes it! Long live the brain!
I just had a morning with a very large cup of coffee and some time to kill on the keyboard. I figured I'd ramble on and see if it helps anyone. Remember, even if I would not pay money for a big tweak, doesn't mean that you can't. You will end up with a better sounding system to you. So in the end, all's well that ends well. This was just a long winded way of saying that
DDzCLX
Well-known member
Changing the line cords on a pair of CLX would be much easier than ignition coils on my 911. I'll be doing the car next time I change the plugs, but not the speakers.
I had to have the engine and transmission all out of the car because I needed to have my camshafts pinned. While it was out I had them replace some other stuff. Easy to do the spark plugs etc. The camshaft problem is a known issue with those Mezger engines.
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2021
- Messages
- 23
- Reaction score
- 10
I’m setting up my Quests in a new space and a power cable became disconnected in the process. No impact on that speakers sound at all. Due to a residual charge in the panel?
amey01
Well-known member
Yes, that'd be right. Won't last long though - 1/2 hour to an hour max I would have thought?
roberto
Well-known member
Amey is right and the time last being disconnected depends of how loud you are listening to the music.
The panels behaviour is like a big capacitor. The time for the full charge takes less than 2 seconds. That charge is pure DC. This DC is circa 2KV. Being Static, does not drain any current from the Mains AC.
Happy listening!
Russr
Well-known member
At risk of mixing metaphors, and possible AudioPhile Heresy (!), I liken it to working on your (favorite device - for excample..) car. As a perennially broke student, I KNEW that my '77 sedan ran SOOOO much smoother, and with more power after I had dome some work on it... didn'tmatter if it was an oil-change, steam-cleaning the engine bay, or a head-job/valve grind! It was ALWAYS better after I had worked on it.
Now, as I get older, I'm not nearly as ambitious in my electrical nor mechanical projects, but I'm pretty sure my stuff sounds better after I've done some tweaking.
NOTE: After spending a few years working a part-time gig at a stereo consulting gig, where we worked on studio equipment, bespoke high-end amplifier and speaker design and fabrication, etc., I knew my way around a signal generator, silly-scope, etc. But the simple truth is, after tweaking my SL-3s, I've never broken out the signal gennie for testing! Closest I've come is to download a signal generator app, run it on my phone, and confirmed my suspicions that the panels in my Theater i are not doing so good (and the tweeter in one of my Kef RDM-2's is totally gone!).
Bottom line, as others have said, do what pleases YOU... if a sales guy pitches me on power cables, my follow-up question is "do you include a run of the same stuff from the local transformer to my house, and then to my amp outlet?"
Sometime, the law of diminishing returns has to be applied.. sure, I can afford a bit more now than in my student days, but am I REALLY getting 10X the joy that I used to get from my KEF Cadenza's, Quad 33/303 and TD120 w/SME mkII... can't say I do. BUT... I love my SL-3's, Bryston/Anthem combo (no matter what digital stuff I'm feeding them!). Put on your fav music, sit back, take a deep breath, put your feet up.... and enjoy!
/ramble!
Russ
Now, as I get older, I'm not nearly as ambitious in my electrical nor mechanical projects, but I'm pretty sure my stuff sounds better after I've done some tweaking.
NOTE: After spending a few years working a part-time gig at a stereo consulting gig, where we worked on studio equipment, bespoke high-end amplifier and speaker design and fabrication, etc., I knew my way around a signal generator, silly-scope, etc. But the simple truth is, after tweaking my SL-3s, I've never broken out the signal gennie for testing! Closest I've come is to download a signal generator app, run it on my phone, and confirmed my suspicions that the panels in my Theater i are not doing so good (and the tweeter in one of my Kef RDM-2's is totally gone!).
Bottom line, as others have said, do what pleases YOU... if a sales guy pitches me on power cables, my follow-up question is "do you include a run of the same stuff from the local transformer to my house, and then to my amp outlet?"
Sometime, the law of diminishing returns has to be applied.. sure, I can afford a bit more now than in my student days, but am I REALLY getting 10X the joy that I used to get from my KEF Cadenza's, Quad 33/303 and TD120 w/SME mkII... can't say I do. BUT... I love my SL-3's, Bryston/Anthem combo (no matter what digital stuff I'm feeding them!). Put on your fav music, sit back, take a deep breath, put your feet up.... and enjoy!
/ramble!
Russ
Last edited:
A slight detour but just wanted to mention.
One wire that definitely helped my system and dare I say all is Oyaide 10ga I wall wire from your outlet(s) to your power box. Some maybe can’t as it’s just not possible without a huge construction issue or maybe at roughly $40/ft the run is just too long to afford. Also when you are at your power box check your ground with a clamp on meter $300 you need to be below 5ohms. Last but not least is upgrade your duplexes. If you do that you will be amazed at how much better your system will sound.
One wire that definitely helped my system and dare I say all is Oyaide 10ga I wall wire from your outlet(s) to your power box. Some maybe can’t as it’s just not possible without a huge construction issue or maybe at roughly $40/ft the run is just too long to afford. Also when you are at your power box check your ground with a clamp on meter $300 you need to be below 5ohms. Last but not least is upgrade your duplexes. If you do that you will be amazed at how much better your system will sound.
Did not run $40/ft wire but did wire 2 dedicated duplexes with 10ga Romex home runs to 2 dedicated breakers in the master panel with attention paid to their being wired in-phase. I too noticed a significant improvement in system sound quality doing this.
That's a great start. I did forget to mention to get things on the same phase is also important so thanks for bringing that up. 10 Ga. romex is definitely an improvement however its a noisy cable. No shielding, wires running parallel to each other the whole run is not good. The Oyaide wire is not only much better copper but it's a shielded cable. Also don't forget grounding and the circuit breaker. Use silver/tungsten is what I was told. Also move you circuit breaker close to the input of power in your power box. But again grounding and testing where you are is very important.
same here and at the same time tried to position all 'dirty' circuits (dimmers, etc) to the opposite down leg in the breaker box.
Did it make a 'real' difference ? Honestly I can't say, but I sleep so much better now !
For those changing where the loads are in the electric panel, be sure to check the Neutral to Ground voltage. There's a 5-10% tolerance of voltage found on the Neutral. So if it's a 120V, up to 12V is tolerated on the Neutral, if more, the imbalance is too great.
Speedskater
Well-known member
At the main breaker panel the Neutral to Safety Ground voltage should be 0.0 Volts.
Knowing what I know now, I probably would choose a more suitable wire like the Oyaide. What Oyaide wire did you use? Any idea if there is a shielded wire that is less costly? The one positive if I were to retro-wire the duplexes is that it is less than 6 feet to the master panel.
Russr
Well-known member
Anybody got any S/N ratio info on these power cables?
Russ
Russ
Seems like a no brainer you need so little just get the good stuff Oyaide 10 ga wire you will not be disappointed. However i can’t emphasize enough to tackle your ground, circuit breakers, proper phase and what your panel buss bars both mains and ground are made of. With out that the great wire will only get you good results not outstanding
