Center & surrounds for ML Motion 12? Receiver?

[tedolap]

I am considering the purchase of a pair of MartinLogan Motion 12's. The living room is 15 x 17. One of the 15 foot sides has an 8 foot wall with the rest open to a kitchen. The AV equipment will go on the 8 foot wall and people will sit in that half of the room. The usage will be 70/30 HT/music and I listen mostly to classical music.

First, what would be the best center speaker? Is a Motion 6 sufficient or would a Motion 8 be much better? For $100 more than the 8, the Motion C has some wood finish & porting but the same drivers. Finally, what about using a vertically placed Motion 4 instead, the cheapest alternative (though it was vetoed by my wife)?

I can attach surround speakers only to the back wall. Again the cheapest alternative would be using Motion 4's or Motion 2's. How much of an improvements would the Motion FX's be? The Motion FX's come in white so would be aesthetically better (WAF) but will cost over twice as much.

I have a Yamaha RX-V867 receiver rated 95 Watts/ch for 2 channels. According to the specs, the speakers are "4 ohms. Compatible with 4, 6 or 8 ohm rated amplifiers". Will it be pushing it to use this receiver? At least the Yamaha has pre-outs so I can add an amp. (Should have bought the receiver last but couldn't pass up a deal.) I drove the Motion 12's with a similar amp at BB and it seemed to have plenty of volume for 2 channel.

My #2 speaker choice now is the PSB Image T5. Never had a chance to hear the T5 and Motion 12 together though. Both sounded relatively open and detailed. Third cheaper alternative would be Energy CF-50's. (Definitely preferred the ML.) Anyone else do comparisons?


Thanks,

Ted

 

[tedolap]

When running the 2 Motion 12's, Motion 8, and 2 Motion 2's, the Yamaha RX-A800 (similar to mine) needed to run at the -5 to -3 level. Will pulling this much power through the receiver stress it or cause distortions?

Thanks.

 

[roberto]

Hola Tedolap. I do not think that using your receiver with the Motions 12, center Motion 8 and surrounds Motion 2 will make your Yamaha to bleed. Just trust your ears and adjust at your listening seat, the even level for all 5 speakers (I should say 6, but you are not saying anything regarding your sub). Any these days receivers have enough power to drive them with no problem. Besides, 95 Watts/channel is enough for a nice dedicated HT room. If you want to play at very high volume level, then your receiver does not has the enough power for such level... but I assure you that you will be fine, and your ears will not bleed too. You can produce over 100dB SPL with 95W/ch. That's a lot of noise. Happy listening.
Roberto.

 

[churchill]

First off, welcome to the club Ted!

While I haven't heard the Motion series I believe the newer models are more amplifier friendly and you should be OK with the Yamaha to start with. You can always add an amp down the road. Since I'm running a 2.1 system I'm not much help in the ML HT speaker department; hopefully a few of the other HT members will respond.

If your not opposed to buying used (Audiogon) you can maximize your amp dollars and pick up a nice 5 channel amp (Sunfire etc).

Since you like classical you might consider the ML ElectroMotion ESL speaker also?

 

[tedolap]

Thanks for the welcome.

I was kind of limited in terms of speaker size because of the Wife Approval Factor. She liked the looks of the ML-12's and didn't want anything taller.

 

[Jungle Jack]

I am considering the purchase of a pair of MartinLogan Motion 12's. The living room is 15 x 17. One of the 15 foot sides has an 8 foot wall with the rest open to a kitchen. The AV equipment will go on the 8 foot wall and people will sit in that half of the room. The usage will be 70/30 HT/music and I listen mostly to classical music.

First, what would be the best center speaker? Is a Motion 6 sufficient or would a Motion 8 be much better? For $100 more than the 8, the Motion C has some wood finish & porting but the same drivers. Finally, what about using a vertically placed Motion 4 instead, the cheapest alternative (though it was vetoed by my wife)?

I can attach surround speakers only to the back wall. Again the cheapest alternative would be using Motion 4's or Motion 2's. How much of an improvements would the Motion FX's be? The Motion FX's come in white so would be aesthetically better (WAF) but will cost over twice as much.

I have a Yamaha RX-V867 receiver rated 95 Watts/ch for 2 channels. According to the specs, the speakers are "4 ohms. Compatible with 4, 6 or 8 ohm rated amplifiers". Will it be pushing it to use this receiver? At least the Yamaha has pre-outs so I can add an amp. (Should have bought the receiver last but couldn't pass up a deal.) I drove the Motion 12's with a similar amp at BB and it seemed to have plenty of volume for 2 channel.

My #2 speaker choice now is the PSB Image T5. Never had a chance to hear the T5 and Motion 12 together though. Both sounded relatively open and detailed. Third cheaper alternative would be Energy CF-50's. (Definitely preferred the ML.) Anyone else do comparisons?


Thanks,

Ted

Ted,
I would go with the largest CC that you can afford. Also, I would not use the 4 Ohm Setting unless the Yamaha is going into Protection as this Setting is there to meet UL Certification and lowers the available power in the AVR.

I would strongly recommend looking for at least a 2 Channel Used Amplifier. By doing so, you will both get far better sound when listening to Music and taking stress off the AVR giving it more available power to the other Speakers. A used Acurus or Parasound can be found for under 300 Dollars and both would do a great job. If averse to used, you could get something like a Behringer Amplifier for around 200 Dollars as well. I greatly prefer the Acurus or Parasound though.
Cheers,
JJ

 

[JordanD]

I have extensive experience with the Motion 12 and the Energy CB-50. Personally, what I would do (given your situation) is I would go with the Motion 12's and the Motion 4's for the surrounds because of the fact you are mounting on the rear wall. The Motion FX's would work fine on the back wall but you would have to bring the speakers down on the wall toward ear level to get the most out of the speaker, BUT the Motion 4 and 2 both have a wall mount (supplied) that allows for a 20 degree tilt so you can mount them higher and out of the way, but still obtain the optimal sound.

As far as the center goes, I would go with the ML Motion C or the Motion 8. The Motion C just sounds a lot more full to me. Not that the Motion 8 (or 6 for that matter) are bad but if given the choice the Motion C is where I would spend my money.

 

[tedolap]

Ted,
I would not use the 4 Ohm Setting unless the Yamaha is going into Protection as this Setting is there to meet UL Certification and lowers the available power in the AVR.
JJ

I did not know that but I should have guessed. I was testing at BB, running 2 - 12's, 1 - 8 and 2 - 4's in the rear. I changed the RX-A800 to the 6 ohm mode and the speakers seemed to lose some brilliance - and it still became pretty hot. I will go the opposite direction and try the speakers with the top-of-the-line amp at BB to see how that improves the sound. I'm sure glad BB is a block from my work and the listening room is rarely busy. Thanks for the Amp advice.

Thank you JordanD for your thoughts on the center. I haven't found any Motion C's to compare to the 8's. I have dropped the CF-50 from the horserace so the only challenger now is the PSB T5. It's a somewhat warmer speaker but still fairly open. Good details but not the clarity of the 12's. They are also 6 ohm speakers, so easier to drive.

One review of the 12's said they sounded good when played on the loud side but sound quality dropped if played at a moderate to low level. Has anyone noticed that? I did a quick test and I sort of agree. Need to do more research. Would more power help even when playing at a lower level?

 

[JordanD]

I did not know that but I should have guessed. I was testing at BB, running 2 - 12's, 1 - 8 and 2 - 4's in the rear. I changed the RX-A800 to the 6 ohm mode and the speakers seemed to lose some brilliance - and it still became pretty hot. I will go the opposite direction and try the speakers with the top-of-the-line amp at BB to see how that improves the sound. I'm sure glad BB is a block from my work and the listening room is rarely busy. Thanks for the Amp advice.

Thank you JordanD for your thoughts on the center. I haven't found any Motion C's to compare to the 8's. I have dropped the CF-50 from the horserace so the only challenger now is the PSB T5. It's a somewhat warmer speaker but still fairly open. Good details but not the clarity of the 12's. They are also 6 ohm speakers, so easier to drive.

One review of the 12's said they sounded good when played on the loud side but sound quality dropped if played at a moderate to low level. Has anyone noticed that? I did a quick test and I sort of agree. Need to do more research. Would more power help even when playing at a lower level?

I personally think the Motion 12 performs better at low levels then most dome tweeters because of the surface area of the EMT. Even better then the Motions, the ESL models perform so much better then any other speaker at low levels. Those of you that own an ESL can try this and attest to it.

Have you considered the EM ESL instead of the Motion 12? I realize you have a WAF to consider, but for the price difference I think you'll be getting so much more. Especially if you are interesting in the low volume listening. The sheer surface area is what makes the ESL models great at carrying sound over much larger distances while holding detail.

Go into your local Magnolia Home Theater and take a listen. They should have the entire Motion line on display, the Energy line, and the EM ESL. So you can con in and put them through the paces. Bring some material you are familiar with. turn them down to -55.0db and listen to the amount of detail even in a loud store like that.

If you do though, keep in mind that those demo rooms they designed are terrible and you'll get much better imaging and bass response at home.