Budget amp for ML Ascent i's

[leed]

Hi all:

Thanks for all the previous advice everyone. I came across a pair of Ascent i's in perfect condition. They were driven by Mark Levinson 333's and sounded great. I picked up these speakers for $1950 locally.

These wonderful speakers are hooked up to what may be the worst amplifier recently produced - an Aiwa receiver. Needless to say, I am not happy.

Unfortunately I spent more on the speakers than I was intending so I need to go with an inexpensive used amplifier for about a year.

I would love to hear your opinions on budget amplifiers for ML speakers.
My budget is $250 right now but maybe we can absctract this to a number of different price ranges to answer this question once and for all. I would be happy to summarize the results.

As a starting point, I will throw in some of my opinions and I would love to hear yours. If you disagree with my ideas, let me know. Clearly we are talking about high current amps that are stable at low impedances.


0-$250
Carver TFM-22,25, Carver TFM-32,35


$250-$500
Adcom xxx
Carver A706x

$500-$1000
Sunfire 300x2
Bryston 4B

$1000-$2000
Bryston 4BST


$2000+
Passe Labs
Mark Levinson
Krell


Regards,
Lee

 

[churchill]

I've never owned a Sunfire amp but they garner high praise here and you can pick up a used one on Agon fairly reasonable.

 

[Gordon]

Hi leed. At least you were able to hear your speakers with a suitable amp before you bought them. So don't loose heart. You know what they are capable of and they must have grabbed you like the rest of us! I can't give you any advice on the amps you mentioned. I would think that any of the pieces you mention would be a major improvement over what you have now.

There was a system posted here, maybe Rich, his system with the Barbie turntable and you'll feel a lot better! Honestly, there are quite a few amps available to you in your price range that should tide you over.

Hang around a bit and some of the more experienced folks will chime in. Sometimes it gets a little sleepy here but somebody will answer your questions!

Gordon

Try looking at Audio Classics.com. I've bought quite a bit of gear from them and have been quite pleased. I'm partial to McIntosh, but they have an extensive lineup of gear from all the major players. No affiliation with them except being a satisfied customer!

 

[wallacefl]

had a Sunfire Sig II and it gives you the best of tubes without the "tubes"...compared to a CJ 11 and very close contest IMHO.

 

[User211]

Behringer A500 Thread Link

This is a very good amp for the money. And I have used it with Ascents. My review compares with some expensive 211 amps, which I prefer. But for the money, you'll be amazed, I promise. Reading my review on it, in retrospect, I think I was probably a little hard on it.

I'm using it now through some Scandyna Drops.

Any comments about this amp being poorly made are completely unfounded, I think. It's amazingly well made for the money.

Please try it and report back. BTW: it has volume pots but only one input. You just need a switching box for more than one input.

In fact, for your average quite expensive SS amp owner, this amp is just scary.

 

[User211]

Here's the review that inspired me to try it, from a known avid box swapper

"Arrived yesterday. Well, if you don't try these things, then how can you slate them off as being pathetic and useless. .... yes, I know it doesn't stop some people!

Bought it new from GAK (Guitar Amp Keyboard, apparently). Phoned them to make sure they had it in stock. Ordered on-line. Within about an hour I had full tracking info by email. Arrived by courier next day. The service is impossible to fault. £153 delivered.

Tbh, I was expecting a poorly made piece of lightweight plastic junk.

To say that I was astonished at the actuality would be a severe understatement, what it most reminded me of was a small Bryston power amp. Compact, but very solid and chunky, and very nicely put together. The only slightly naff thing is the two plastic level adjusting knobs at the front. The wife thinks it looks great - can we get other gear to match it, please? No way am I telling her the cost!

Excellent connectivity at the back. Seriously nice speaker binding posts - just pop the central plastic lugs out with a small screwdriver and it accepts 4mm banana plugs as well as bare wire and spades. Stereo inputs via RCA, XLR and jack plug. IEC mains socket.
What's not to like?

I needed to use those front panel level attenuators - fully open the amp is ultra-sensitive - all the action on the volume knob then happens in the first 5% of rotation and there is a lot of hiss thru the speakers. No problem - just wound it back to about half way and it matched a 'normal' hifi amp and hiss is inaudible.

Be a bit wary of those heatsinks though - nice & chunky but they feel a little unfinished and may cut unwary fingers. Grab handles on the rear of the amp though, so not really a problem.

The sound - how about the sound? Is Serge right and are these as capable of playing music as any other decently specified amp?

In a word, although it pains me mightily to say it, Yes.

It sounds fine. Does it do anything obviously "wrong"? Nope - it just plays music with verve and detail and neutrality and presence and power and authority. No treble screech or midrange grain or wallowy bass or anything else nasty.

Playing some very familar fare and comparing it with my Cary SET valve power amps, it sounds a little less liquid and the soundstage has a little less ambience. Some might say those things are just artifacts of the valve amps' undoubtedly higher distortion. I wouldn't necessarily reject that idea.

Playing some discs that I hadn't heard for ages - so a completely different system to last time - everything has changed, so no kit comparisons can be made - the question was simply "did I enjoy the music my system made with the Behringer?" Hell yes - it sounds totally fab. I guess that was the clincher for me

How does it compare with the recently departed Krell 400xi? I think it's just as good, overall. The Krell is warmer. The Krell is probably more coloured.

The bass is taut and a little on the dry side compared to my Cary's and the Krell. That combined with the dry nature of my Infinity speakers bass at the moment leads me to prefer the Cary's bass presentation. Better synergy. But I may just need to adjust to the change, or tweak the speakers' positions.

I have to say that if you are considering buying a hifi amp for whatever overall cost of your system, then in my honest opinion, you really do owe it to yourself to try one of these. It really is a very fine amplifier and powerful enough for all but the most extreme speakers. And you get nice flashing green level indicator LEDs. What more do you want?"

 

[MOON]

Hi Lee,
I previously owned the 4bst Bryston and switched to Simaudio, specifically a W-5 amp which was a big step up in every way, resolution, soundstage, low level retrival, etc.

It retailed for $7300 when last in prodution, you should be able to find one on agon for around $2300.My suggestion is if you can't afford a higher end unit now, go for something not too expensive and save up. Logans demand good equipment upstream.

I have since updated my cdp and pre to the newest Simaudio Evolution equipment. The W-5 amp will be the last peice to be updated, that's how much I like the W-5 amp.
Cheers, Greg

 

[Len44]

As someone who owns Ascent i's, perhaps my experience will be relevant.

I have had great success pairing a Yamaha MX-1000 (and a CX-1000 pre) with the Ascents. This is a wonderful, musical amplifier that has as much power as one will need for these excellent Ascent i speakers. Your <brief> research will yield very positive comments.

Given your location, you should be able to pick up this combo for between $600 -- $1200. My experience with this combo was simply wonderful. Plenty of juice, and terrific sound quality.

BTW, there is one currently up on ebay for $300 (so far), and one for $1050 on the 'Gon. Somewhere in between should be the sweet spot on price.

Good luck! You've landed some great speakers with the Ascents.

 

[leed]

Hi Everyone:

I am going to try getting a Behringer A500 amp. Amazon has it for $196 and I get free shipping.

I have little to risk here. If I really like this amp, I can get a second in the future and bi-amp. Or I can spend 10-20 times more and get a "real" amp.


I noticed that Behringer has a pro amps (eg EP1500) that are 2ohm capable and have even more power than the A500. Unfortunately they do not have unbalanced inputs (RCA).

Should I even consider the EP1500 or EP2000. In the future I will have equipment with balanced output but today I do not. I take it this makes it a non-starter.

Regardless of what I get, I will report back with my findings.

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of the Behringer - it's what I need right now (good bang for the dollar).

Regards,
Lee

 

[User211]

Stick with the A500. The others have noisey fans and aren't really suitable for home use. This was the verdict on another forum I post on...

 

[raanan17]

EP-1500 works unbalanced with 1/4 inch adaptors

Hi Everyone:

I am going to try getting a Behringer A500 amp. Amazon has it for $196 and I get free shipping.

I have little to risk here. If I really like this amp, I can get a second in the future and bi-amp. Or I can spend 10-20 times more and get a "real" amp.


I noticed that Behringer has a pro amps (eg EP1500) that are 2ohm capable and have even more power than the A500. Unfortunately they do not have unbalanced inputs (RCA).

Should I even consider the EP1500 or EP2000. In the future I will have equipment with balanced output but today I do not. I take it this makes it a non-starter.

Regardless of what I get, I will report back with my findings.

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of the Behringer - it's what I need right now (good bang for the dollar).

Regards,
Lee

I use my EP1500 with my CLSs-great match.It even has high quality pots on the input.It was also a great match with my SL3s.

 

[Horchem1972]

Adapters can be bought cheaply at Radioshack or usually and pro music store.Good luck.

 

[leed]

My amp will be in a closet, potential unbalanced/balanced issues?

Hi all:

User211: Could you point me to your post on the EP1500 on the other forum - either privately or here?

raanan17: Are you saying you connected unbalanced output (eg CD player) to the 1/4" balanced input and you did not have issues? That would be great!

What I failed to mention was that any amplifier I get will be put in a closet directly behind the center point of the speakers. This is for both practical reasons as well as WAF. Its hard to argue with my wife on this point - she was even ok with me getting CLS's for the living room. She is ok with the look of the Ascents (I sold it as modern art). She just does not want to see the rest of the gear. Its hard to argue with the babies running amok as well to have the gear in the living room.

As a result, the noisy fan of the EP1500 is not a factor for me.

I like this pro EP1500 amp because:
1. it has more power
2. it has more power at impedances that my speakers run at
3. Its built like a tank
4. If I upgrade to a "better" amp in the future, I can use this amp in the future as general purpose pro amp (think PA, dances, outdoor events, halloween).

I realize I can make a physical connection between XLR & RCA.

What about the practical side of going unbalanced output of a CD player/slim device to a balanced input on the amp? I am worried about introducing hum and if the out voltage/impedance of RCA (unbalanced) aligns with what is expected on XLR (balanced). I can't seem to find a definitive answer on the web (or at least an answer I am comfortable with).

Thanks,
Lee

 

[Jimna]

i personally have used xlr>rca many times without issue at all. granted it was for recording purposes not plaback, but i see no difference in going preamp to recording deck vs. preamp to amp.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
I would also look for an HCA Series Parasound Amplifier. These really are great amps for the money and many times Martin Logan has used Parasound to drive their Speakers at Trade Shows.

The HCA-1000a might not be powerful enough, but the HCA-2200 would do nicely. Depending on your room size and listening levels, the 1000a might work as well.
Cheers,
ML

 

[User211]

User211: Could you point me to your post on the EP1500 on the other forum - either privately or here?

I went through the same thought process as you to a certain extent.

I wouldn't get the EP1500 because it simply isn't aimed at hi-fi use, even vaguely. It might have more power, but I bet it doesn't sound as good. The A500 does sound good - we know that from a number of audiophiles that have said so, including me, I guess.

BTW: the A500 holds the Ascent like a vice. It has PLENTY of power for it, especially in the lower registers. It will drive the Ascent to extremely high levels. The Ascent isn't that hard to drive, really - don't get into thinking you need mega-Watts for it - because you simply don't.

The forum to search in is this one: http://www.hifiwigwam.com/

 

[leed]

I bought the A500

Hi all:

I just ordered the A500 ($192 from Amazon, no tax, free shipping).
I will write to you all my experiences with this amp & the Ascents.
Thanks for all the advice.

Regards,
Lee

 

[User211]

Quite rewarding when someone actually listens to some advice

Hope you like it. For $198, I think you'll agree it is great. Peanut giveaway price for it, really.

 

[TomDac]

I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on how it sounds driving your Ascents.

 

[leed]

Amp arrives Wed. Cables for xmas

I really do appreciate all the advice.

The amp arrives on Wednesday. New speaker cables are hopefully coming for Xmas.

If anyone is in the bay area (California0 and wants to see/listen - I am in the Santa Cruz area. Happy for you to drop by. Just send me an email.