Audition of Previous Generation ML Speakers?

[[email protected]]

I would like to seek the opinion of this user-friendly forum. I will start by posting the question: How does one audition vintage Martin Logan speakers that dealers no longer carry? Here is why I ask that goofy question.

I presently own a set of mint condition Apogee Centaur speakers and a pair of vintage Dynaudio Contour 1.1 speakers. I am interested in either purchasing a set of Apogee Duetta Signatures or preowned Martin Logan speakers. I have heard the refurbished Apogee Caliper signatures (beautiful sound), but I have never heard the Summits, Spires, or Vantage speakers. So, how do I go about hearing these “vintage”speakers before a potential purchase of a pair off of Ebay or AudiogoN? Do I ask if anyone on this forum lives in central Texas and then hope that I will be invited to hear his or her speakers? With new speakers, I would ask the dealer to let me audition them in my home, but dealers no longer have any of these models. Also, most dealers (Austin, Dallas, Houston, TX) aren’t very excited to hear that I live 2-3 hours distance from their store, and that I want to take their speakers with me for a home listen prior to a potential purchase. The dealer’s concerns are warranted so I stopped asking several years ago.

FYI, I have heard the Montis speakers in an audio store in Austin and it was instant love. The price was too high for my budget. Perhaps I should just bite the bullet and talk to the dealer in my old hometown of Milwaukee and see about getting the Montis from them? I was really trying to find a nice pair of preowned speakers rather than new, but I just don’t want to purchase without having an ability to listen in detail to the speakers.

On an unrelated note, I also heard the Summit X at a Magnolia Audio store, which had the speakers set up for watching movies (with two big subs). The two young guys thought that the booming base was "to die for", but dang the sound was horrible. So, I am not sure what the Summit would sound like with some nice vinyl?


Thank you.
Bob
College Station, TX USA

 

[roberto]

Hola Bob,

The Summit X vs Summit, the factory made some changes, like new woofers, and also changes in the electronics, so, its not possible to change a Summit to version X. But I had both (Still owns Summit old model) and the change is not that dramatic from one model to the other. I do believe that you will find always, people with the right ears that can tell you the differences, but having the two models at the same time, my friends and I did not find a night and day difference between them. The model X, we found that we could set them up in smaller rooms with easy...but the quality sound of Martin Logan remain on both models.

The Montis model is one of the best speakers made by ML, in my humble opinion. You have the exact stat panel that its on the Summit (X) and the difference it that you have only one 10 inch woofer. The integration of the stat panel and woofer is almost perfect! The Spire Model uses also, the same stat panel, but with different electronics. On the Montis, you can adjust the level of the woofer starting from +-10dB 100 Hz to below, so you can precisely adjust the bass level at your golden seat. On the Spire, you have a +-10dB adjust at 35Hz only.

I love the new generation stat panels. You have over 40% of the diaphragm exposed to the air. This is very important, because they are the heart of ML speakers. This is very important for various reasons, but I am just going to say some of them:
1) This diaphragm weights less than the air that it moves!! The diaphragm is to thin, that its responsible to move as fast as the signal is applied to it, and will stop moving right away, because there is no inertia. So, having this kind of diaphragm,
2) You will find the lowest distortion free of the panel. Usually, the THD distortion on a regular cone speaker, the good ones are about 3% and up...with ML you have about 0.03%. This is the reason why they are so clean, transparent.
3) With these stat panels, you move a lot of air while they are playing. This feature for me is very important, because you do not need to play them very loud to get a precise size of the musical instruments.
4) The timbre, and the sound stage is so good, that you forget that you are listening to an audio system, and you start to develop a sense to be with the musician(s) playing for you there, at that virtual stage in your own room. You find the fun that they are having playing any kind of music. The soul of the musician(s) are granted. Its not how clear are the brightness or the mid range, an an example, its how clear you can feel the right hand vs the left hand in a piano player. These things come to your ears easy.
5) You must have some room treatment, but they are very easy to set up.
6) The dynamics, the expression of the musician(s), the nuances at the music is very impressive. And the last,
7) The coherence. Its so importante, because you always have the same size of the musical instrument(s). The vocals are projected as they are. No more hoarseness. Also, you will not have in certain musical notes, the singer throat! Or the guitar player plucking the strings!. You will listen to all this, there, at the virtual stage in your room.

You can´t go wrong with any ML product that you can get. All of them are well built. Also, all ML models are supported. You can get mostly all special parts for them. The stat panels are not cheap. But they come with a 5 year warranty.

I use a saying to express ML: quality has no regret!

Happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Bob,

The Summit X and Montis are being discontinued. DaVinci has (had?) some killer prices for these models.

RE Summit bass. They were not set up properly and / or the salesman had the bass volume set way to high.

GG

 

[sleepysurf]

I just received the Expression ESL 13A, upgrading from Summits (not X). Thus far (not fully broken in) the soundstage is a tad deeper and wider, with similar tonality and dynamics. After break in, bass will likely be better than the Summits (especially after ARC), but bass is very room dependant. Thus far, the improvement going from Summits to Expressions is evolutionary (not revolutionary). IMHO, a used pair of Summits (or new, discounted pair of Summit X) offer tremendous value for the money, without giving up any of the "magic" of the newest models.

 

[stuwee]

Hello bobklien04, my thoughts...all ML's have a 'house' sound, the very early Sequels and SL3's have a magic with the right electronics.

As sleepysurf said, you don't get twice the sound for twice as much money, you get a more refined sound, with moments of brilliance that take your breath away on certain recordings. I had never heard Summits and bought mine off ebay for $5,500. I will Never regret that purchase...snap up any pair of high end discontinued Martin Logans that comes up for sale in your price range. You already liked what you heard before from them, good luck and happy hunting!!

 

[[email protected]]

Thanks for the helpful insight.

I want to thanks each of you for your comments. I have previously posted on other audio speaker forums (Apogee) only to have the quality of my amplifier and preamp called into question. Personally, I think the older Audio Research tube preamps and amplifiers are still enjoyable! Nevertheless, thanks for actually addressing my questions on this forum.

I would still love to hear the Martin Logan speakers in my listening room with my equipment prior to purchase. Maybe I need to see if Magnolia Audio will let me try the Ethos or Theos in my house if I talk to the manager. My interest, I believe, will be in either the Summit or the Montis. My wife said this will be my last speaker purchase (forever), so I better get it correct!
Cheers
Bob

 

[sleepysurf]

... My wife said this will be my last speaker purchase (forever), so I better get it correct!
Cheers
Bob

If that's the case, I'd definitely go with the Montis or Summit X. In fact, IMHO, a Montis PLUS one (or two) BalancedForce 210's might be the best "bang for the buck" of all!

 

[[email protected]]

To Roberto

Su consejo fue de mucha ayuda. Gracias!
Bob

 

[stuwee]

Hey Bob, I've had my gear called into question on many forums, I like what I like and you should as well. The Apogee's are a fine speaker, real nasty load on an amplifier though.

I don't know about the Montis but, the Summits present a special, wicked load on an amp as well, even though it's just driving the panels.

Wink,wink...the Ml's are like pieces of art in the room that make lovely music, I've yet to have a guest not say they look unreal, then when they listen...:bowdown:

 

[roberto]

Su consejo fue de mucha ayuda. Gracias!
Bob

Hola Bob...es un gusto! He estado dentro del mundo de ML desde 1986. Y soy distribuidor desde 1987. Te aseguro que que he tenido muchos modelos por mis oidos, teniendo todos, la magia de Martin Logan. Tuve los Appogies Dueta, antes y debido a la gran humedad relativa que tenemos aqui, a los 6 meses de tenerles, su ribbon se destruyo.

En lo que pueda ayudar, con mucho gusto!
Saludos desde Costa Rica,
Roberto.