Are there better ML speakers than the Sequel?

[peteys]

I know this might sound funny to you guys and girls. But I have the original Sequel's with panels I replaced 13 years ago. They were in a fire 2 years ago and sustained serious heat and smoke and they still sound great. I did wash them and noticed an improvement and am due for new panels but am thinking of upgrading my whole system. Maybe using the Sequel for my rears in the HT.

I'm am using a $35 dvd player for music and a $170 Onkyo 5.1 receiver for HT and 2 channel listening. I know you guys are just roaring now. I just wanted to know how much better a system would sound for maybe 5K. I live in NY and am not sure where I could audition any equipment and love reading about everyone's High end gear. I think it's great. Would there be that much of an improvement for 5K or would I have to spend much more? I'm definitely interested in buying used to save money. There is just so many options.

By the way I have been a musician for many years and have listened to many monitoring systems in high end studios, but the detail from my lowly Sequels still astound me. Right now for my recording studio I use Dynaudios BM6'a's which are supposed to be fairly accurate.

 

[risabet]

Summits and maybe Vantages are a definite step-up. At 13 yo with heat and smoke damage I'd bid them a fond adieu and be done with them.

 

[peteys]

That's funny. I believe the summits would be way out of my range. I do really appreciate that you guys are real gear sluts. I have been a gear **** myself; only with outboard gear, guitar amps and guitars. Maybe I should just do some more reading on this site to get some ideas.

 

[risabet]

That's funny. I believe the summits would be way out of my range. I do really appreciate that you guys are real gear sluts. I have been a gear **** myself; only with outboard gear, guitar amps and guitars. Maybe I should just do some more reading on this site to get some ideas.

The Vantages are 5K and you might be able to finagle a 5-10% discount, though I am laughing!

 

[zzvelik]

Pete,

I'm not sure if you want to spend 5k just on speakers or the whole system. In any case, I recently picked up some wonderful deals on hifi equipment (I'm begging to sound like a broken record as far as Primare is concerned). There was a guy on avsforum who picked up a Primare SPA21 for $1250 (retails for $4k) from Huntington, Long Island. I'm not sure how far that is from you, but that's a heck of a deal on a very powerful and clean sounding amp. Here's the thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=753643&highlight=primare

Also, you may want to look for ML's Aeon i's which were dicontinued earlier this year. There are 2 local dealers in Southern CA who are selling it from 2-2.5k. You may find similar deals in your area. I also saw the pair of Vistas on Audiogon for 2.55k. That's a great deals as well. Just thought I'd give you a heads up for some good deals.

Z

 

[peteys]

I would love to hear some of the systems people have on this board. They must sound absolutely incredible. I really am in awe at the dedication, time and money spent by you guys for the love of music. Back to my original question.

Is it really that much better? Everybody here must have started small or with relatively modest equipment. Does it get that much better with mono blocks, cables, DAC's etc? I guess it's the same with recording gear. The differences are cumulative.

 

[IWalker]

I'd put some into the gear...put $3k or so into Vistas or something of the type... and $2k into a pre and amp. Or if you can go up a tad in budget, vantages + the pre + amp. A source + dac upgrade can be done for $650 or so to make some pretty significant changes...

you could upgrade the gear now and then wait for more budget and upgrade the speakers later.

 

[lugano]

Is it really that much better? Everybody here must have started small or with relatively modest equipment. Does it get that much better with mono blocks, cables, DAC's etc? I guess it's the same with recording gear. The differences are cumulative.

Pete, your dilemma is an incredible common sense-oriented blow of fresh air. We all own Ferraris and daily eyeball countless 40 MPH speed limit signs (which are the poor music recordings we throw at our gear). Some have incredible preamps and monoblocks and must spend a fortune for interconnects that move the music from pre to poweramp, instead of getting an integrated. Some others can't live without a state-of-the-art DAC, which was intentionally left out from their $4000 CD player. But all this reminds me of a really existing restaurant (in Italy, where else) which has only one table and no food menu, only a wine one - you eat what the cook decided to prepare for you that particular evening. Needless to say, that restaurant is booked for 8 months in advance. And the table has only 2 seats...check out their site at http://www.soloperdue.com/ - that's what we are after....

 

[twich54]

Pete, your dilemma is an incredible common sense-oriented blow of fresh air. We all own Ferraris and daily eyeball countless 40 MPH speed limit signs (which are the poor music recordings we throw at our gear). Some have incredible preamps and monoblocks and must spend a fortune for interconnects that move the music from pre to poweramp, instead of getting an integrated. Some others can't live without a state-of-the-art DAC, which was intentionally left out from their $4000 CD player. But all this reminds me of a really existing restaurant (in Italy, where else) which has only one table and no food menu, only a wine one - you eat what the cook decided to prepare for you that particular evening. Needless to say, that restaurant is booked for 8 months in advance. And the table has only 2 seats...check out their site at http://www.soloperdue.com/ - that's what we are after....

Damn, I love that analogy !!!

 

[peteys]

Wasn't that beautiful?

That Primare SPA21 for $1250 sounds like a wonderful place to start. I'm guessing that it would quite a good match for ML's. I'll have to call tomorrow to see if the deal is still good.

As far as speakers go, how do I go about auditioning speakers that are no longer sold? And for the people who have heard sequels and now have better. Most here, I will presume. Will I fall in love again?

Does everything get better? Soundstage, reverb tails, less jitter? Could you explain what your system does to you. I was listening the last couple of evenings since I set my gear up. And I can't believe how relaxing and enthralled I have become with the music again. It just doesn't sound as good on reference monitors in a studio. Different purposes, I know.

 

[cyclone]

I have sequel IIs with newer panels that I run with a pair of velodyne subs I thought like you newer and bigger would equal better so I bought a nice pair of Requests only to find out I preferred the Sequels much better. I sold the Requests and kept the Sequels.

 

[Joey_V]

I own a Ferrari??

 

[Rich]

I own a Ferrari??

Yes, you do. And when you really want to show what it can do, you hit the nitrous switch; I mean the Class "A" bias switch.

 

[peteys]

Wow, cyclone. That's pretty amazing. I'm also using a sub with my sequels. It's definitely makes a big difference. There's really very little bass without it. Could I ask you what the differences you found between the different sets of speakers. Things you liked and disliked.


I still would love to hear some premo systems. I'm gonna have to find a store in my area. There used to be a high end audio place near me called "The Listening Room", but they closed.

And Yes Joey, you definitely own a Ferrari and it's bright red with a very pretty girl sitting right next to you.


I just found out that there is a Magnolia store sort of near me. Is that one of the best places to check out gear?

 

[fubar1764]

Magnolia. Well, despite being associated with the Smurf Village (Best Buy. . .where everyone is in blue), Magnolia is strongly supported by Sumiko. Sumiko distributes everything from hi-mid to hi fi. They import Vienna Acoustics as well as Sonus Faber, both wide dispersion speakers (unlike our MLs). If you've ever listened to a well put together, Sonus Faber, it's really an amazing experience. Very involving and detailed. I'm classically trained in piano and could hear the dampers strum the strings as they were lifted up. Just breathtaking. . .and out of my price range at the time! IMO, the Vienna Acoustics are the baby brother to the Sonus Faber.

In your case, Peteys, I would strongly recommend going upstream rather than down. We have a Denon DRA-325R 2ch that's 20 years old. Great receiver, very well built. We recently decided to upgrade. I picked up an Adcom 545II. Since we're waiting for the preamp to arrive, I couldn't help myself and used our TV as the preamp to test out the Adcom. Wow. Day and night difference. For starters, at moderate volumes, there was no buzz. Beyond the significant reduction in electrical noise, there was a lot more detail and clarity. Using the PS2 as a source, I watched the intro to GT2. When a car went airborn and landed, I heard the thump of tires landing - something that I had never heard before.

Keep in mind that the 545 is probably the WORST amp Adcom put out (I didn't know it at the time, just going on Atkinson's glowing review of the original 555 which he described as an amp that would change the industry and put some manufacturers out of business). If I can get those kinds of day/night differences from a mediocre amp, think of what you can do with a decent one?!

Biases. Basically, I'm not one who is convinced that newer is necessarily better. Newer is shinier and spiffier. For me, that brings me limited joy. I like something that's been around my house for a long time, thumbed through, run into, tripped on, and basically been a part of my life. I like old things that have been loved, enjoyed, and survived the "clutter culling" that happens when two pack rats live in close proximity!

I also prefer used gear. Sure, you have to be careful, but other people have tested the gear for you already. If it's good, it'll have good resale value. If it's not, it won't. Case in point: Kinergetics C-800 pre/pro. Very good piece of pre/pro, especially during the nascency of HT. Retailed for several thousand and well worth it! 10 years later, you can pick it up for $300 without breaking out a sweat. Why? It has a Motorola chip that Kinergetics overclocked. So, the C-800 is prone to failure at around 9 years. The marketplace reflects reliability as well as desireability; audio magazines won't since they're in the biz to make money. More advertising = more money. Bad review = no advertising = no money. The marketplace never lies.

So, my experience has been to bump up the amp and the preamp and see what happens. The speakers will cost you a mint, and it's not like your Sequels were cheap to begin with! We're keeping our Aerius i's and upgrading the pre and amp. I'm just guessing (everyone jump in with their opinions on this one, please!), but I would imagine that upstream gear is going to sound similar throughout the ML range.

Ferrari. Uh, we have a red Lotus and a hot wife. Does that count? LOL! :cheers:

 

[Beat_Dominator]

Depending on your level audio addiction, you might consider replacing the Sequel's panels again and then upgrading all of the gear..... then a few years down the road upgrade the Sequels.

I have heard many of MLs offerings over the years and the Sequel/II are no slouches. They have driver-integration issues between the panel and the sealed woofer, but this is not as drastic as some would have you believe.

 

[cyclone]

I think the Sequels bass although there wasn't as much, is much tighter than the Requests also I liked the detail and soundstage of the Sequels better.
You might consider new panels for you Sequels for $500.00 they'll probably make a huge difference also if you haven't done so yet use spikes you'll be amazed at how much they'll help.
With MLs more so than with about any other speakers what you have upstream in your system makes a difference even cables can drastically change the sound.

 

[Pcar928fan]

Fubar,

I would love to see a pic of the hot wife and the hot car...together would be good! LOL! Seriously what kind of Lotus do you have??? Might want to put that over on the "Our other Hobbies" forum list! The guy moving in down the street has a black Esprit V8 Twin Turbo. I would love to have an Elise w/ paddle shift but I don't think there is room for my wheelchair and DAMN are they hard to get into! Even if you are NOT in a wheelchair they are hard to get in and out of!

All the best!

Magnolia. Well, despite being associated with the Smurf Village (Best Buy. . .where everyone is in blue), Magnolia is strongly supported by Sumiko. Sumiko distributes everything from hi-mid to hi fi. They import Vienna Acoustics as well as Sonus Faber, both wide dispersion speakers (unlike our MLs). If you've ever listened to a well put together, Sonus Faber, it's really an amazing experience. Very involving and detailed. I'm classically trained in piano and could hear the dampers strum the strings as they were lifted up. Just breathtaking. . .and out of my price range at the time! IMO, the Vienna Acoustics are the baby brother to the Sonus Faber.

In your case, Peteys, I would strongly recommend going upstream rather than down. We have a Denon DRA-325R 2ch that's 20 years old. Great receiver, very well built. We recently decided to upgrade. I picked up an Adcom 545II. Since we're waiting for the preamp to arrive, I couldn't help myself and used our TV as the preamp to test out the Adcom. Wow. Day and night difference. For starters, at moderate volumes, there was no buzz. Beyond the significant reduction in electrical noise, there was a lot more detail and clarity. Using the PS2 as a source, I watched the intro to GT2. When a car went airborn and landed, I heard the thump of tires landing - something that I had never heard before.

Keep in mind that the 545 is probably the WORST amp Adcom put out (I didn't know it at the time, just going on Atkinson's glowing review of the original 555 which he described as an amp that would change the industry and put some manufacturers out of business). If I can get those kinds of day/night differences from a mediocre amp, think of what you can do with a decent one?!

Biases. Basically, I'm not one who is convinced that newer is necessarily better. Newer is shinier and spiffier. For me, that brings me limited joy. I like something that's been around my house for a long time, thumbed through, run into, tripped on, and basically been a part of my life. I like old things that have been loved, enjoyed, and survived the "clutter culling" that happens when two pack rats live in close proximity!

I also prefer used gear. Sure, you have to be careful, but other people have tested the gear for you already. If it's good, it'll have good resale value. If it's not, it won't. Case in point: Kinergetics C-800 pre/pro. Very good piece of pre/pro, especially during the nascency of HT. Retailed for several thousand and well worth it! 10 years later, you can pick it up for $300 without breaking out a sweat. Why? It has a Motorola chip that Kinergetics overclocked. So, the C-800 is prone to failure at around 9 years. The marketplace reflects reliability as well as desireability; audio magazines won't since they're in the biz to make money. More advertising = more money. Bad review = no advertising = no money. The marketplace never lies.

So, my experience has been to bump up the amp and the preamp and see what happens. The speakers will cost you a mint, and it's not like your Sequels were cheap to begin with! We're keeping our Aerius i's and upgrading the pre and amp. I'm just guessing (everyone jump in with their opinions on this one, please!), but I would imagine that upstream gear is going to sound similar throughout the ML range.

Ferrari. Uh, we have a red Lotus and a hot wife. Does that count? LOL! :cheers:

 

[fubar1764]

The first is our Lotus before we took delivery of her in Iowa. Yes, Iowa! The previous owner had 4 other Lotus 4 Austin Minis, a BMW Mini, and 2 SUVs. He was picking up an Elise and needed the space!

The second is a pic of the missus at the sculpture garden in Houston.

 

[Pcar928fan]

The first is our Lotus before we took delivery of her in Iowa. Yes, Iowa! The previous owner had 4 other Lotus 4 Austin Minis, a BMW Mini, and 2 SUVs. He was picking up an Elise and needed the space!

The second is a pic of the missus at the sculpture garden in Houston.

You are right both are beautiful! Thanks for sharing the pics w/ us!