Are Spires better than Summits?

[Stereonerd]

And yes, I did search for 'Summits vs. Spires' but couldn't find much.
I didn't even know about the Spires until someone offered me a pair for HALF of what my Summits cost me. The Spires appear to offer newer technology, but are they in fact better? The Home Theatre review says they are. Has anybody on the forum auditioned both models?
Also, I'm wondering if there's a way to find out when an ML was manufactured. My Summits were originally purchased new in Australia in 2012. Could they have sat there since the first run in 2005? And did the Summit evolve subtly over the years it was in production?
Thanks in advance for any tips!

 

[roberto]

Hola,
The Spires came out after the Summits, but their cost was the half. Only one woofer and the bass contour control is at 35Hz +-10dB. Only one digital 200 watts power amplifier that drives the woofer. The stat panel is the same size of the Summits.

Having two bass contour controls at the Summits, one at 50Hz+-10dB and the other at 25Hz+-10dB, this allows you to have a superb bass precision control. If you do know how to use those controls, the bass performance is formidable, with almost having the bass player there, in your own place. Two woofers and two 200watts power amplifiers to drive them.

To my ears, there is no comparison at all. Summits were the top of the line model of Martin Logan. They replaced the Prodigy model.

Trust your ears, they are the final judges. On audio, everything is a matter of liking. I use my Summits in my second system, and I am very happy with the audio quality that I get from them. The Summits are one of a kind speakers. Usually misunderstood using the bass controls. To me, they are truly a wonder and a jewel to use.

Happy listening!

 

[roberto]

I forgot to mention that the crossover point of the Summit is at 270Hz and the Spires are at 320Hz. The sensitivity also is 1dB less than the Summit. You can use a very large power amp driving the Summit with no problem, 600 watts on each, so they can play very loud and their design were for a large room too. You can use them in a small area too.

Happy listening!

 

[twich54]

Spires are clearly better that Summit's when paired with a good sub(or two), IMO ……...

 

[fordste]

Spires are clearly better that Summit's when paired with a good sub(or two), IMO ……...

I would go with the Summits verses bringing an external sub into the system. Subs integrated wrong, which most are, can leave you with a sound that is not coherent. Placement for proper timing and applying the proper roll offs for crossing over from the mains can leave you with a less than perfect result. The bass drivers in the summits are formable and are engineered to properly integrate to the panels producing excellent results.

 

[PeterHo]

Hello,
are your judgements on SUMMITs valid for the later SUMMIT X as well or are these 2 models not really comparable.

PS: I own the EM-ESLs which really make me still smile..but I am looking for the next level considering to search for a pair of used MONTIS, SUMMIT or SUMMIT X as the new 11As are hard to be found in Germany (at least for an affordable price)

Regards Peter

 

[roberto]

Well, that’s a different beast. And if you add a sub to the Summits?

Everything is a matter of liking.
Happy listening!

 

[Robert D]

Well, that’s a different beast. And if you add a sub to the Summits?

Everything is a matter of liking.
Happy listening!

Exactly. Ive read some still prefer the Prodigy over the Summit.

 

[fordste]

I have a pair of Summits. The Summit X has a different improved cross over but everything else is the same. I have so much bass coupling to the room I have to deal with a +20 Db humpat 20hz which is corrected (tamed) with a TacT room correction. So there is more bass than needed if the speaker is in a good room and is setup properly. In reality the bass section is a 2 12” driver sub.

 

[Stereonerd]

Thanks all for your help and advice, especially Roberto. I'm finding that nearly every time I listen to an old favourite with the Summits it's like opening a whole new world of discovery. Such depth of sonic "vision", such lifelike percussion, and the bass! I must admit that I don't trust my ears enough yet to meaningfully adjust the bass controls. I tried but to me, they sound best a '0'.

 

[Lightloopy]

or you can be like Joel in Risky Business - push all those sliders on the left all the way up.
if 0 works then "0" is best-as Roberto says trust your ears!

 

[roberto]

Exactly. Ive read some still prefer the Prodigy over the Summit.

As I alway say, sound is a matter of liking. The Prodigy is a great speaker, but has the old Martin Logan technology. I have a Summit power point presentation where there is a comparison between them. I you want to read about that and see the presentation, just email me a note. My email address is [email protected].

How can you adjust the room boundaries with your Prodigy Robert? With the Summit model you can. Also, the stat panel on the Summit, the diaphragm is exposed to the air about 40% with the micro perf XStat technology. The newer panel has more high frequency extension, much more dynamics, and a marvellous stage presentation. Please, don't get me wrong here...I am not saying that the Prodigy is a bad model...no sir.

But there are minor flaws that I would like to point out: The new frame is totally dead. It does not resonates as the wood frame of the Prodigy does. So with the Summit there isn't any voice or musical instruments coloration with the speaker cabinet or frame.

Also having two power amplifiers built in, one 200 watts amp for each woofer, and the precise 50Hz and 25Hz +-10dB control knobs, allow to have the right bass energy at any room, small or big.

I wish that I could speak more fluent English to express myself better, the good thing is, if you like the Prodigy, then enjoy them! They were one of the best ML speakers and also the top of the line. Just have a listen and let your ears decide. They are the final judges. If you like better the old technology is OK. Enjoy those fine tunes! My ears are very happy with the newer panels...

Happy listening!

 

[Robert D]

As I alway say, sound is a matter of liking. The Prodigy is a great speaker, but has the old Martin Logan technology. I have a Summit power point presentation where there is a comparison between them. I you want to read about that and see the presentation, just email me a note. My email address is [email protected].

How can you adjust the room boundaries with your Prodigy Robert? With the Summit model you can. Also, the stat panel on the Summit, the diaphragm is exposed to the air about 40% with the micro perf XStat technology. The newer panel has more high frequency extension, much more dynamics, and a marvellous stage presentation. Please, don't get me wrong here...I am not saying that the Prodigy is a bad model...no sir.

But there are minor flaws that I would like to point out: The new frame is totally dead. It does not resonates as the wood frame of the Prodigy does. So with the Summit there isn't any voice or musical instruments coloration with the speaker cabinet or frame.

Also having two power amplifiers built in, one 200 watts amp for each woofer, and the precise 50Hz and 25Hz +-10dB control knobs, allow to have the right bass energy at any room, small or big.

I wish that I could speak more fluent English to express myself better, the good thing is, if you like the Prodigy, then enjoy them! They were one of the best ML speakers and also the top of the line. Just have a listen and let your ears decide. They are the final judges. If you like better the old technology is OK. Enjoy those fine tunes! My ears are very happy with the newer panels...

Happy listening!

The fact that the newer panels have the amps for the woofers is a great thing. I really do wish the Prodigy speakers have that. Do the Summit Panels have as many square inches in size as the Prodigy? Some folks say that in general they like the sound of the older panels more, not sure why. I have never compared, just going by what I have read online.

I just got my new Prodigy panels, I wonder why they didnt just make the new panels with the microperf if that is better? Guess it wouldnt be tuned right with the crossover or something?

 

[amey01]

Some say so. I think the best bet is to trust your ears - have a listen to both. You'll probably find that they are different - better/worse in different ways. Only you can make the call on what is "better". Both are excellent speakers.

 

[roberto]

I have my Prodigies at the junk room. I got my Summits from a dear friend for nothing, instead re-panel the Prodigies. The new stat micro perf XSstat is smaller in size, but bigger in dispersion than the Prodigy. My ears do like better the new panels than the old tech. This is the reason I have the CLX and the Summit. The timbre is also more precise. The transparency is the same, but I love the coherence with the newer XStat. These panels are very much dynamic and less shy. When you listen a dynamic cone speaker, and listen the percussion, with the old panels the dynamic is much less and the hight frequency extension too. Cymbals are projected very nice, but when you do hear the newer presentation with the XStat, you don 't miss the cone dynamics and their extension.

The difference with the new XStat is the same old tech with steroids. Also there are a voices odd resonances in certain musical notes that with the new XStat are gone. To express better, here is what ML says about this:

The Summit’s ultra-rigid AirFrameTM and revolutionary compact XStatTM electrostatic transducer dramatically reduce the size of the ESL support structure and stat panel, yet increase rigidity and provide exceptional dynamics, magical sound staging and superb off-axis performance.

Happy listening!

 

[Necrosuit]

Hello folks, Personally I like the Spire over the Summit but then went to Prodigy and really loved the Prodigy best of the three for my ears. I did like the Spire over the Summit. Just sold Spires to try Summit X, hopefully I like them even better.

 

[18000rpm]

I have both the Prodigy and Summit (Prodigy bought used from dealer with brand new panels, Summit bought new) and personally I prefer the Prodigy for the bigger soundstage. I do have a Descent to help the Prodigy's low end though, which is clearly not as deep as the Summit.