Another recording.... RUINED!

[risabet]

Well, I think that the debate between analog and digital stirs some deep passions. While I don't like the statements you cited either, I understand that written communication sometimes does not convey the whole message a person is trying to express, thus misunderstandings do arise.
I would not take it too seriously, these disagreements keep things spicy :devil:

The level of civility on this board is much higher than on AA which I frequent also. A little spice is a good thing as long as it doesn't get too personal, no need for name calling. Is "apologists" a name?

 

[twich54]

I left forever a dictatorship at 15 because I could not immagine my future in a place - a country - where I had to sing with the crowd or else suffer the consequences of having different ideas - and I did have different ideas. Since then, I lived in one of the most democratic countries in the world, a country where we vote even for futile things like cutting down an old tree or not, a country where everybody is entitled to have and express his opinion and a country that I limitless respect.

This is exactly what I've done, starting with "Personally" and strictly sticking to my point of view, as biased or wrong as it might be. It is, and remains, my opinion. And every opinion, especially if it's different from some kind of "established truth", can be the starting point of constructive, mind-opening, horizion-widening dialogs - or can be flushed down the toilet by the first know-it-all dictator around. Other criteria, like political correctness, the desire for social peace and tranquility or the need for perfect harmony at any cost might refrain others from stepping in - but then the whole concept of forum becomes useless, because as nice as it might be to stay silent together, there are other places and times to do it.

Staying together in this forum and turning each day into Christmas, New Year's Eve or Thankgiving is not going to work in the long run. We can't go forever celebrating new members and wowing at each other's new amp or piece of hardware; I personally need healthy discussions from time to time, discussions which bring excitement, new info and ideas, different points of view et similia - but getting answers that begin with "it's patently untrue" and continue with "you're a victim of misconceptions...unbelievably condescending attitude" is not what I was waiting for - it's exactly what I've been running away from my whole life, and my running shoes are always ready, should I have to put them on again.

Well said !! and I agree !!

 

[twich54]

And for those on the sidelines one way or the other, try and audition both classes of systems and sources and find out what you like.

Jonfo, FWIW, I have and I enjoy BOTH !! As Lugano and Risabet have both said, constructive dialogue is good and healthy. In a well executed and properly set-up system both formats can perform to very high levels, thus allowing ones 'mood' of the day to decide which one to ENJOY !!

 

[MiTT]

Radu (Lugano) has always been one of those guys here who listens to what others have to say, mulls it over in his mind, and tells you (Honestly) what he thinks. It may rile folks on occasion, but I know it is never mean spirited. So many others, JonFo, Risabet, Dave (Twich54) - are also able to debate the plusses and minuses, note their preferences and respect that our differences enhance rather than dimminish this community. As a moderator here I view it as part of my obligation to support debate yet encourage respect for those differences.

As Romax noted, this is a subject of much debate, and frankly I'm glad that we are all so passionate about our music. In the end - for me at least - while I enjoy all of my equipment, I love the music. THAT is the end, the equipment is only the means to that end and as such I really don't care if it is realized via tubes or transistors or play dough for that matter, just give me the music in the truest fashion possible.

As Pilot said though "what is truth". In JonFo's system the truth comes by way of digital bits off of a hard drive and I have no doubt that the music flows regularly to the enjoyment of all who hear it. Risabet, Dave and I are vinyl junkies who probably tap our toes to our tunes everybit as much as anyone here, firmly convinced that our black slabs render the most musical truth to our ears.

Synergy is a fickle thing. I"ll tell you that in my system I have put as many dollars as I can afford or care to into my digital setup, but that I and literally everyone else who listens to my system prefers the sound from my analog setup. I have a friend who has spent less money than I on his system as a whole, but still equal amounts on his digital and analog setups, and on his system we both prefer the sound he get's out of his Ayre CD player to that of his Rega turntable. No big deal, the tunes sound great and that's all that matters.

I guess my point is that what ever makes you smile while you're listening to your system - that's the right thing for you to be listening to.

 

[theWB]

Radu (Lugano) has always been one of those guys here who listens to what others have to say, mulls it over in his mind, and tells you (Honestly) what he thinks. It may rile folks on occasion, but I know it is never mean spirited. So many others, Risabet, - are also able to debate the plusses and minuses,

Tim,
You are so right on. Lugano and Risabets comments I particularly enjoy, because they are both opinionated and not afraid to tell people what they REALLY think. Kind of people I would enjoy hanging out with. So many people today don't voice their opinion today because they've been brainwashed with politcal correctness or afraid of hurting someones feelings, or just aren't secure with who they are.

 

[tonyc]

I love these great debates! I like music even if I have to listen on a clock radio. That said, analog still rules.

 

[Dreamer]

OK, it's been a day since the Krell went into my system, and about 4 hours of straight listening with the Benchmark DAC, and I've got to put my 2 cents in on this topic.

Luckily, most of my faves (Keb Mo, Norah Jones, Diana Krall, Bob Marley, most of the classical stuff) sounds FANTASTIC with my recent upgrades. However, I've found a few CDs that actually sound worse, which I attribute mostly to Krell at this point. Have geat of this level in my system is showing me that a lot of "pop" recordings, and some of the obscure stuff on budget labels is really just crap, from a recording POV. I don't know if the vocals and some of the instruments on these troublesome recordings are just overmodulated in the production or what, but on some of the CDs I have that I like to listen to, there is some sort of weird grundy audible distortion now...

I'm hoping that the Krell is not malfunctioning--it is used after all (but supposededly VERY low hours). It seems, with certain recordings, that if I get the volume up much above the second light on the volume meter, the wheels start to fall off. They sound like the mixing board is just potted way to high on teh original recording, and then mixe down or something. I don't know--I'm not an expert on class-A amplification (which is what the Krell's inputs are I think) but I do know what an overdriven solid-state circuit sounds like, and on a few (and I mean, really, just a few) CDs, that is exactly the sound I get.

I blame the recordings. The most egregious one so far is JJ Cale & Eric Claptons "The Road to Escondido". But then agin, this disc sounds like a piece of psychotically over-produced, effect-laden, over-modulated crap even when I play it in my car. If I can hear that it sounds bad in my car, then my system is only going to make it worse, I suppose. The levels on this CD re so high, that anything over the second light on the Krell are simply unlistenably loud--"Good" sounding CDs, I can run up to the center of the meter before the cats run for cover... :rocker:

Don't get me wrong--I'm a fan of both Clapton and Cale, but this CD sounds like it was produced by Britanny Spears' team, while on a REALLY bad meth and acid jag. More wacky effects in the mix than a Prince album, and a Pink Floyd box set rolled together, except with this disc, they didn't get it even close to right. The music is GREAT--to bad they ruined it in post-production...

The remastered re-release I have of Billie Holiday's "Lady In Satin"--which was recorded in 1958--sounds really sweet. So does the Stan Getz disc that was recommended in the "recordings" section of this forum, again, recorded over 30 years ago. Miles Davis "Love Songs" a collection of recordings from '58-'64 is ESSENTAIL Miles, and the Columbia re-release I have (1999, Columbia Legacy) is just hear-breaking, clean, and as cool as Miles gets.

Any ideas? What gives with these crappy-sounding "pop" recordings?

Is this just the curse (as this thread seems to say) of a transparent system--that you can hear just how abolutely incompetent and musically clueless most of the engineers in the Pop Recording industry are today...

--Richard

 

[MotorToad]

The last Clapton record I bought was My Father's Eyes and "overproduced" is the best (and nicest) thing I can call it. I can't say anything specifically about its sound (other than it's at least 2-3 dB louder than your average disc), but it sounds overengineered, overproduced, overdone, and more. It reminds me of Douglas Adam's description of the Restaurant at the End of the Universe: "No expense was spared in giving the appearance that no expense was spared."

I've often found that the sound on a lot of British pop and rock music is done better than most American efforts, and the Clapton thing really surprised me.

 

[slowGEEZR]

I blame the recordings. The most egregious one so far is JJ Cale & Eric Claptons "The Road to Escondido". But then agin, this disc sounds like a piece of psychotically over-produced, effect-laden, over-modulated crap even when I play it in my car. If I can hear that it sounds bad in my car, then my system is only going to make it worse, I suppose. The levels on this CD re so high, that anything over the second light on the Krell are simply unlistenably loud--"Good" sounding CDs, I can run up to the center of the meter before the cats run for cover... :rocker:

Don't get me wrong--I'm a fan of both Clapton and Cale, but this CD sounds like it was produced by Britanny Spears' team, while on a REALLY bad meth and acid jag. More wacky effects in the mix than a Prince album, and a Pink Floyd box set rolled together, except with this disc, they didn't get it even close to right. The music is GREAT--to bad they ruined it in post-production...
--Richard

That's disappointing to hear. I bought the vinyl and it is superb, as a matter of fact I have used it to show off vinyl sound to friends. My buddy copied it from the vinyl into a wav file and it also sounds superb in digital. I think it doesn't matter what media you use, if the mastering (original or transfer post production) is poorly done, the result is crap. - Steve