What PreAmp and Amp do I use for ML 7.1 Setup?

[Twist]

I'm doing a Martin Logan 7.1 Setup using:

2 Vantages
1 Stage
4 Passages
1 Descent i

Everyone is telling me to not go with receivers like Pioneer Elite or Marantz. I'm not looking to spend a whole lot as I have already spent thousands already. I plan to use it for both quality music and action movies. I hear that innersound.net sells the best. But I'm not sure they have for this 7.1 setup. Also what speaker wire do you pros recommend? Suggestions anyone? Thanks

 

[jjcarr]

I have found the older Lexicons to be one of the best deals out there. You can get a DC2 for under $500, and an MC1 for under $700. The logic 7 mode is the best movie surround mode I've heard. I had a Meridian 565 which was warmer sounding for Music, but not as good on movies.

Depending on your price range, you can also look at the MC8,which includes an analog bypass mode so that you can run a nice DAC or tube setup for music.

 

[Rich]

Everyone is telling me to not go with receivers like Pioneer Elite or Marantz.

Everyone is correct. Going with a receiver would be a mistake. To properly drive the high quality speakers you have bought in the best possible manner, you need quality separates.

I'm not looking to spend a whole lot as I have already spent thousands already.

Therein lies the rub. If you don't spend a little more on a quality preamp and amp combination, then you are wasting some of the money you have already spent to get great speakers. The chain is only as good as its weakest link. If you spend thousands on speakers and then only a few hundred on a receiver, you will be disappointed and wonder why you spent so much on the speakers.

I hear that innersound.net sells the best.

First of all, there is no "best." There are lots of great options, both new and used. As far as Innersound goes though, the original founder and brains behind that company has left and started another company called Sanders Sound Systems. His preamp and amps are top-notch and I highly recommend them. I use them in my own systems. But they are not inexpensive. I personally do not recommend doing business with Innersound anymore. They are not the company they once were.

Also what speaker wire do you pros recommend?

I personally highly recommend Signal Cable speaker wire. I use the Silver Resolution and have heard good things about the Ultra as well. They charge a reasonable price for quality cable. However, there are as many opinions as there are brands. If I were you I would concentrate on the components first and use something basic like monster until you have things set up properly. Then you can audition various cables and decide what flavor suits you the best.

Suggestions anyone?

I suggest that you use the search function on the forum to find previous threads discussing the topics you are interested in. There have been numerous previous discussions regarding all of these questions you have asked and rather than us writing down the same suggestions yet again, you could just read the previous discussions. Also, peruse the members systems threads to see what gear and cabling different members are using in their systems. Thanks. Good luck with your system.

 

[JasonR]

On a budget, I think Outlaw is really hard to beat. I haven't heard Emotiva equipment first hand, but it looks like another one to consider if budget is a limiting factor, or you just want to get a lot for your money.

- Jason

 

[ralflar]

I bought several Emotiva components last year. They are much (!) better than the low price suggests. I suspect a receiver would have to be very expensive to even compete with one of the mid-range or better Emotiva combos.

 

[Jasper]

My 0.02 - (and lesson learned)...

Agree with the previous reply's, you'll defintiely enjoy the system more if you don't skimp on the amp/pre. Since you've put the money into the speakers give some thought to the system you want and then the best way to get there. May need to think out a few upgrades from now...

RE: reciever: You might look at recievers that allow for pre-outs if you are looking to save $ now but upgrade later. I ran off a Denon reciever (as pre) for a while before upgrading my Pre/processor so keep that in mind if you go rcvr route.

good luck!

Jasper

 

[Twist]

Can I get any amazing components for $2-3k?

I was looking to spend $2000-$3000 for my preamp and amp. I'm hoping to make my Vantages sing but also make my Decent i boom! Like I said I'm doing a 7.1 with the Stage & 4 Passages as well. I need to buy them this week because my installer is going to caliberate everything together next Wednesday. Could anyone tell me where I can get them and for how much money? Thanks to everyone who replies. Greatly Appreciated!

Can anyone help me find some good deals on some used equipment that would work well with my 7.1 ML setup? As you can see I'm trying to get the most for my money. At most I'll spend $5000 if the stuff is something that would make a major difference!

 

[Twist]

Is Lexicon better than NAD in terms of performance for music and movies cause I hear everyone saying that Lexicon's LOGIC 7 is great for both! I'm so confused at this point what to get. I've been reading mixed reviews all night all over the net but nobody's commenting using them with Martin Logans. So what do I exactly need cause all I have is my Plasma TV, PS3 (Playstation 3), and my new Martin Logans connected to ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL!

 

[jjcarr]

Is Lexicon better than NAD in terms of performance for music and movies cause I hear everyone saying that Lexicon's LOGIC 7 is great for both! I'm so confused at this point what to get. I've been reading mixed reviews all night all over the net but nobody's commenting using them with Martin Logans. So what do I exactly need cause all I have is my Plasma TV, PS3 (Playstation 3), and my new Martin Logans connected to ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL!

Yes, the Lexicon stuff is better than NAD. NAD makes excellent equipment but is generally more mass-market and not as high end as Lexicon. Some people complain that the Lexicon stuff doesn't sound good on music, but this is when compared to high-end 2-channel tube preamps, not to comparable theater processors. For a home theater setup and music, you'll find Lexicon hard to beat for the price.

If you're looking to spend $3k, here are some to look at:

Lexicon MC1 ($700): http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homeproc&1207433412

For the amps, I'd do a 5-channel amp for the surround speakers, and a 2-channel for the vantages, this will give you a little more flexibility, but a 7-channel would do the job as well.

5 Channel Sunfire amp: ($900)
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1207297660
2 Channel Sunfire (300w) amp: ($800)
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1208208894
Arcam 7-channel amp: ($1700)
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1207462189

There are a lot of options, these are just some suggestions. I use a Lexicon DC2 and a Chiro amp, which I'm replacing with a Rotel amp. I currently use them with an Apogee setup, but have used ML in the past and am comfortable that they will work great with your Logans.

 

[JasonR]

Outlaw 990 pre/pro + 7700 amp (7x200) is $2898. Buying the 990 makes you eligible for a $200 discount on the next generation pre/pro if/when it comes out in 2008. For now, if you can live without HDMI (and I imagine most of us can), it's a hell of a nice sounding setup.

I have the 990 and 7500 (same amp but 5 channels) powering Vistas, Cinema, and Vignettes, along with a Descent sub, and I'm very happy this setup. The Vantage should be even easier to drive than the Vista. I'd say come over for a listen, but you're a couple thousand miles away.

- Jason

 

[Twist]

Would this be a mistake?

Would just using the Denon AVR-5308CI with my setup be a mistake?

 

[jjcarr]

I upgraded from a Denon 3803 and the difference was night and day. Can't say that holds 100% for the 5308 but it should.

 

[Twist]

Which is more powerful?

Does the Denon AVR-5308CI do 4ohms too or just 8ohms? Will this have as much power as the NAD Masters Series M15 with the M25?

 

[FatJ]

I would suggest going with separates if you can. You'll be glad you did. With all the new features regarding HDMI I tried to go cheap and update my preamp by purchasing a nice receiver to go into my amp. Even with the additional power the difference was HUGE! So much so that when A/B-ing the new receiver to my old preamp my wife noticed an immediate difference... and she cares about this stuff even less that I care about whatever crap she is in to! Needless to say the receiver was promptly returned.

 

[Twist]

Thanks FatJ. What brands do you recommend? Should I do a preamp + 7 channel amp or preamp + 5 channel + 2 channel amps? Can get something nice for about $5k?

 

[Twist]

Great Combination For 7.1 Setup??

Say if price we not a concern would the new Denon AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HDCI be a awesome combination for my Martin Logans? Or is there something better for the price?

 

[jjcarr]

I'll probably get flamed for this but...

Here's a general breakdown of the quality of components, from highest quality to lower (not lowest, just generally not as high quality). This is a VERY generalized take, to give Twist a feel for what he's looking at:

Ultra High End: Lexicon, Theta, Meridian, Krell, Sunfire
High End: Rotel, Outlaw, Emotiva, Arcam
Good: Denon, NAD, Cabridge Audio
Mass market: Sony, Pioneer, etc...

Of course the quality of individual parts will vary, this is just a very rough rule of thumb. If you got a Denon receiver, you'd be happy with it, until you hear a friend's system with Theta or Rotel components....choose accordingly..

 

[JonFo]

Say if price we not a concern would the new Denon AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HDCI be a awesome combination for my Martin Logans? Or is there something better for the price?

The Denon pre-amp is on my list for possible upgrade. And I have a Meridian, so It has to be as good or better. I like the Denon's all-inclusive approach (you get a dang nice upscaler for video as well) and the on-board High-Def audio format processing. Pair it with the DVD-2500BTci and it's a formidable front-end/source combo.

For amps, I'd go with something different. If spending $7K, a good Sunfire TGA7400 would do the job and save you some coin (spend the savings on room treatments).

 

[FatJ]

Glad to hear JonFo's $.02 here because I was just about to reference his set up.

Twist - You are in a good position. There are a LOT of good options out there and a few great ones. I wish I had done a little more homework myself before diving right in thinking that I knew it all. Check out a few systems here (I think JonFo's is a good place to start) and consider some of the electronics. If you have a question about a piece send the member a PM. Everybody here is really friendly and helpful... not to mention they all love to talk about this stuff! If I had a do-over I would not have spent the $$$ on my Meridian amp but intead gone with the Sunfire that was just suggested. They also make a very nice preamp and that might be a good option. Another preamp that I would consider (and am considering for myself) is the AVM50 by Anthem. Happy hunting!

 

[Twist]

Sounds like a plan!

So I should use the Denon AVP-A1HDCI for its new features (Latest HD Audio/Video) and the Sunfire TGA-7400 for the amp? Does anyone know where to get this equipment at lowest cost?? Thank you guys sooo much! You've been so helpful!

Hard to find a good deal on the Denon AVP-A1HDCI, cheapest I've found is $5,650.00 at:
http://www.dependableaudiovideo.com/DENON-AVP-A1HDCIDENON-AVPA1HDCI-P24870C3849.aspx