what amp to use with Renaissance 15a

[drgkc]

That's a SERIOUS amp. Wow!

https://www.audiolab.com/moon-888-power-amplifier/

I have a pair of the previous version 880m monoblocks powering my CLX Anniversaries. And a SimAudio Titan 7 powering my all Martin Logan theater (Theater i, Prodigys, Stylos amd Scripts). I am quite happy with the SimAudio sound. Also have and used a Classé CA-410 (another great Canadian audio company) and VTL Signature MB450 monoblocks. The SimAudio sound is my preferred choice for my listening.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

That's a SERIOUS amp. Wow!

https://www.audiolab.com/moon-888-power-amplifier/

Sure are! Those Moon 888's can launch the next mission to the moon! so to speak. They have an incredible amount of high current capacity, very high and stable voltage, so that combination of amperage plus voltage will deliver plenty of power (watts) to drive very difficult loads, and they handle stats so effortlessly. However, like I was saying, at over 100grand a pair, there are other alternatives. I really didn't find Moon's other power amps as engaging as these, perhaps different trannies are used, I don't know. They sounded ok, hi-fi...ish, very bold and dynamic, powerful but they lacked that sort of musicality found in the 888's or in tubes, which is what I prefer anyway.
The point I'm trying to make is that there's a huge jump from the other Moon amp models to the 888's. The ones in-between are ok but not as good. So you really need to go this high up in order to gain the Full Moon!

Cheers mate, RJ

 

[Robert D]

Sure are! Those Moon 888's can launch the next mission to the moon! so to speak. They have an incredible amount of high current capacity, very high and stable voltage, so that combination of amperage plus voltage will deliver plenty of power (watts) to drive very difficult loads, and they handle stats so effortlessly. However, like I was saying, at over 100grand a pair, there are other alternatives. I really didn't find Moon's other power amps as engaging as these, perhaps different trannies are used, I don't know. They sounded ok, hi-fi...ish, very bold and dynamic, powerful but they lacked that sort of musicality found in the 888's or in tubes, which is what I prefer anyway.
The point I'm trying to make is that there's a huge jump from the other Moon amp models to the 888's. The ones in-between are ok but not as good. So you really need to go this high up in order to gain the Full Moon!

Cheers mate, RJ

Like a tank they are ! 250 lbs each! $480 USD per pound! Expensive cut!

 

[amey01]

Like a tank they are ! 250 lbs each! $480 USD per pound! Expensive cut!

And the weight is probably all just fancy casing. It's probably a Denon inside too :O

 

[codesx100]

Simaudio??

Wouldn't trust it as far as you can throw it. CP-8 was basically a Denon at 18x the price!! They've shown their colours and done their dash with me.

Same goes for Goldmund, Lexicon, and Gryphon while you're at it.

CP-8 was a processor. Wouldn't ever think to buy a processor or anything outside an amplifier from them. Frankly outside a handful of processors your best bet is a Denon with preouts in that area. You can find a used 330a or pair of 400ms on the used market from time to time. I can definitely say they are worth it, I cant say their other non-amp products are worth it.

 

[Fidji99]

Maybe it has been covered;
I use D Class amps, currently Purifi based, not their standard 1ETA400A module, but new and stronger one 1ET7040SA with 45A current and stable to 2 Ohm. With 6V capable preamp and variable gain [I use 20dB] it is quietest and cleanest sound I ever heard coming from my 13A's

You can have it with e.g. Weiss OpAmps and do the op-amp rolling, if this is what you wish for. No power supply hum, cool, small form factor and tons of undistorted power. Class A/B is the past in my books.

​

 

[amey01]

CP-8 was a processor. Wouldn't ever think to buy a processor or anything outside an amplifier from them. Frankly outside a handful of processors your best bet is a Denon with preouts in that area. You can find a used 330a or pair of 400ms on the used market from time to time. I can definitely say they are worth it, I cant say their other non-amp products are worth it.

You can make any assessment you want on the type of product.

Fact is though - if they can dupe you on a processor, they can dupe you on any other other product. That just goes to show the type of people they are.

For $100 or $200, for sure - I might take the risk. For $multi-Thousands? I want their record to be squeaky clean.

Honestly, if they think that taking a Denon and adding a nice metal case is worth 18x the price, what are they doing with their amplifiers? Perhaps taking a cheap Pioneer and doing the same thing?

If 18x the value of their processors is okay to them; what's to say that 18x the value of their amplifiers is not their practice too?

 

[codesx100]

You can make any assessment you want on the type of product.

Fact is though - if they can dupe you on a processor, they can dupe you on any other other product. That just goes to show the type of people they are.

For $100 or $200, for sure - I might take the risk. For $multi-Thousands? I want their record to be squeaky clean.

Honestly, if they think that taking a Denon and adding a nice metal case is worth 18x the price, what are they doing with their amplifiers? Perhaps taking a cheap Pioneer and doing the same thing?

If 18x the value of their processors is okay to them; what's to say that 18x the value of their amplifiers is not their practice too?

They absolutely could, but every company has their duds, if we sat here and went through Martin Logan's history you would find a few of those. I can't speak for the processors as I never had one from simaudio and clearly they learned to stay out of processors as they do not make them anymore.

All I'm saying is that is a very narrow-minded take on a company, to based it solely off 1 subjective experience. That would be like if I took ML's MDA-8 said eh nothing special not worth the price tag, rest of their products must be overpriced as well.

All I'm saying is give the 330a/400m a shot, if you search there has been a few users on here that were ecstatic with them including myself. They are not for everyone as every Audio product, but I can say that if you get a used one in good shape you saved a lot of $$$ and they punch well above their weight at the used market price. if I could afford 888s I would but I'd be buying Neoliths first if I had that type of money

 

[amey01]

They absolutely could, but every company has their duds, if we sat here and went through Martin Logan's history you would find a few of those. I can't speak for the processors as I never had one from simaudio and clearly they learned to stay out of processors as they do not make them anymore.

All I'm saying is that is a very narrow-minded take on a company, to based it solely off 1 subjective experience. That would be like if I took ML's MDA-8 said eh nothing special not worth the price tag, rest of their products must be overpriced as well.

All I'm saying is give the 330a/400m a shot, if you search there has been a few users on here that were ecstatic with them including myself. They are not for everyone as every Audio product, but I can say that if you get a used one in good shape you saved a lot of $$$ and they punch well above their weight at the used market price. if I could afford 888s I would but I'd be buying Neoliths first if I had that type of money

I agree - everyone has their duds.

But this was not a "dud" - It was an unscrupulous, pre-meditated, conniving, fraudulent trick to attempt to pass off a very un-prestigious product (worth circa $1,000) as a $18k processor.

That's not subjective either.

 

[Robert D]

I agree - everyone has their duds.

But this was not a "dud" - It was an unscrupulous, pre-meditated, conniving, fraudulent trick to attempt to pass off a very un-prestigious product (worth circa $1,000) as a $18k processor.

That's not subjective either.

Reminds me of a 6th grade science project I did on robots. I used most of the parts from a toy I had, and just put a box on the outside to hide the frame of the toy!

 

[amey01]

Reminds me of a 6th grade science project I did on robots. I used most of the parts from a toy I had, and just put a box on the outside to hide the frame of the toy!

For a 6th grader, it shows resourcefulness and thinking outside the box.

For a high end audio company to do the same thing, and pass it off as high-end audio equipment for nigh on $20K is criminal fraud.

 

[codesx100]

I agree - everyone has their duds.

But this was not a "dud" - It was an unscrupulous, pre-meditated, conniving, fraudulent trick to attempt to pass off a very un-prestigious product (worth circa $1,000) as a $18k processor.

That's not subjective either.

I dont think i would ever buy an $18k processor even if i had money like that to spend. Thats more of a "look at what I can afford" type deal. I learned early on when I originally got into speakers dont let dollar signs trick you. Actually it was when i first was introduced to MLs. I heard B&W 801s on those crazy 1KW Mcintosh amps, and was like nice! Then brought into a room with a pair of Montis with Simaudio and at a fraction of the price was totally blown away!

 

[amey01]

I dont think i would ever buy an $18k processor even if i had money like that to spend. Thats more of a "look at what I can afford" type deal. I learned early on when I originally got into speakers dont let dollar signs trick you. Actually it was when i first was introduced to MLs. I heard B&W 801s on those crazy 1KW Mcintosh amps, and was like nice! Then brought into a room with a pair of Montis with Simaudio and at a fraction of the price was totally blown away!

I'm not either - but primarily because I can't afford it!

I'm not going to judge what someone spends.

Don't forget, there are plenty of people (like, 99.98%) who would not spend what you and I and the rest of us here have spent on audio systems. To them, a Sony with 15" subwoofers gives them all the bass they need!

But - if you do spend any amount (say $X), then you deserve $X worth of engineering. Not a flippin' Denon with the power supply replaced.

 

[Mystic Dragon]

I have one each for my 11a's and ESLC center channel. I think they deliver great quality and value. When I look at the specs for this vs other "high-end" amps, I can't justify the extra $ for the same or lower specs. Maybe there is a noticeable difference with a Bryston / Sanders / Rowland / Boulder etc... Maybe I'll get there one day. For now, this works really well.

Just like to know if you find the ESL C a good centre channel speaker. There are no ELS C demonstration units in Australia. If I buy, I have to do that in blind faith. Thanks

 

[ttocs]

Just like to know if you find the ESL C a good centre channel speaker. There are no ELS C demonstration units in Australia. If I buy, I have to do that in blind faith. Thanks

I can't speak to the ESL C, but, if you want trust in a blind faith decision, get the Focus ESL C18.

A friendly dealer can knock off 20% from the price. Yes, I know, still double the price. But it's one of those "end game" products, at least, for those of us who don't have the space for a C34A.

 

[Robert D]

I can't speak to the ESL C, but, if you want trust in a blind faith decision, get the Focus ESL C18.

A friendly dealer can knock off 20% from the price. Yes, I know, still double the price. But it's one of those "end game" products, at least, for those of us who don't have the space for a C34A.

I was going to suggest it too because I'm happy with mine. How hard is it to find one used? Probably not easy. Used would get the price down.

 

[ttocs]

I was going to suggest it too because I'm happy with mine. How hard is it to find one used? Probably not easy. Used would get the price down.

Before I bought mine, I was told by a Magnolia dealer that demo units come up from time to time, as well as those who decided to take the plunge and return the C18 and get a C34.

 

[Nuri58]

C18 is good. It has the same sound signature as all ML ELCs but just more of all than the c. Mine was a demo at 30% off which i audited (10s to get convinced) and another 15 min to get to the no return point bringing it along home despite the double up cost.

 

[Robert D]

I got my focus early in 2021 for $3150 new. Thats before prices started to go nuts. I see now it retails for $4900, Geez. Where I buy mine usually gives me 5 or 10% off, cant remember. I last bought from Shawn at Davinci because his prices are even better.

 

[Mystic Dragon]

I was going to suggest it too because I'm happy with mine. How hard is it to find one used? Probably not easy. Used would get the price down.

Hi Robert. I sounds like you have an ESL C18. Just wondering what kind of centre channel speaker did you use before you installed the ESL C18 and whether there was a significant imporvement in sound. Are you driving the ESL C18 with your AV receiver or a mono power amplifier connected to your AV receiver. Appreciate your comments. Thanks.