Want to buy ML's but can't decide which ones.

[Flavio]

I have decided to get some Martin Logan speakers but I cannot decide which ones.

A little info on my room and equipment:
My listening room is 12' wide and on one side (a wall of 3'9'') 13' deep, the other side is open to the rear. The height is 8'6''.
I have some acoustical treatment; thick velvet curtains behind the speakers, diffusors on the side wall and absorbers on the side wall next to the speakers.
I can place the speakers about 3' away from the back wall and about 1.5' away from the side wall (this is restricted by my projection screen).
The listening position is 12' away from the speakers.
I have an Anthem MRX 720 and a pair of Hypex NCore NC500 500W mono amps for the main speakers.
For low frequency I have a pair of Sunfire HRS 8 subs for the main speakers that will send a 70Hz high pass signal to the main speakers.
For LFE duty I have two other huge 15" and 21" subs.
I always sit in the sweet spot.

I intend to buy pre-owned and I have the following options at the moment.
Spire, 2008, original panels, $3,000.
Ethos, 2011, original panels, $3.000.
Theos, 2018 (I have my doubts about that however since the Theos was introduced in 2010), original panels, $2,500
SL3, 1995, panels from 2023, $2,200
Electromotion ESL, 2016, original panels, $2,100,00
reQuest, 1997, original panels (cleaned and working fine?), $1.800

Because of the cost of panel refurbishing or replacement I obviously am reluctant to buy the older speakers. But I know myself and I always want to get the biggest and best speaker possible and that is why I am considering the reQuest. On the other hand I have read here on the forum the the new XStat panels are much more efficient and therefore are just as good as the older bigger panels, so would a Theos not be just as good in my situation?
I tend to change speakers about every year so resale value is important as well.

I have listened to the SL3's this week and they sound magical, although I did notice the sweet spot for imaging was narrow.

Any insights would be appreciated.

P.S. For home theater I don't use a center speaker and I intent to use a pair of Scenarios for surround.

 

[Brad225]

I would say the Electromotion ESL. 1st due to their age then I think they will be a good fit for the size of your room. I bought a pair when they first came out for our living/TV room. At that time my main 2 channel listening speakers were CLS IIz and I was stunned at how good the Electro ESL sounded. I am not a huge extra bass fan and I even got rid of the 2 subs we had in the living room.
I think you will want to get a center channel speaker. I am using a LOGOS that was rebuilt at ML a while ago and it is amazing still.

I'm sure you will receive many suggestions.

Good luck.

 

[Russr]

Some might say I am biased, but...

I'd sugget the SL3's with the new panels. Save some $$$ there, and as mentioned above, invest in a decent Center speaker. The MRX 720 is more than capable of driving it (I was using a 520 to drive my SL3/Stage/Arius HT setup, and it sounded GREAT.
If you can find a good deal (<$1,000) on a well-kept Stage-X, it "fits" really well with the SL3s.
NOTE: In the last thread on the topic on here (I think it was for a Theater i Center), it seems ML is no longer refreshing panels for center speakers. I don't have any experience on the newer ML Centers, but if ML no longer does new panels for the older models, maybe look into a newer one).

All the best, and good luck!

 

[PVMIKE]

I have a pair of ESL 11A's Impressions for sale $6000 will get them have all the original box's and manuals. Will throw in a pair of Kimber-Kables with them

 

[Leporello]

I have decided to get some Martin Logan speakers but I cannot decide which ones.

A little info on my room and equipment:
My listening room is 12' wide and on one side (a wall of 3'9'') 13' deep, the other side is open to the rear. The height is 8'6''.
I have some acoustical treatment; thick velvet curtains behind the speakers, diffusors on the side wall and absorbers on the side wall next to the speakers.
I can place the speakers about 3' away from the back wall and about 1.5' away from the side wall (this is restricted by my projection screen).
The listening position is 12' away from the speakers.
I have an Anthem MRX 720 and a pair of Hypex NCore NC500 500W mono amps for the main speakers.
For low frequency I have a pair of Sunfire HRS 8 subs for the main speakers that will send a 70Hz high pass signal to the main speakers.
For LFE duty I have two other huge 15" and 21" subs.
I always sit in the sweet spot.

I intend to buy pre-owned and I have the following options at the moment.
Spire, 2008, original panels, $3,000.
Ethos, 2011, original panels, $3.000.
Theos, 2018 (I have my doubts about that however since the Theos was introduced in 2010), original panels, $2,500
SL3, 1995, panels from 2023, $2,200
Electromotion ESL, 2016, original panels, $2,100,00
reQuest, 1997, original panels (cleaned and working fine?), $1.800

Because of the cost of panel refurbishing or replacement I obviously am reluctant to buy the older speakers. But I know myself and I always want to get the biggest and best speaker possible and that is why I am considering the reQuest. On the other hand I have read here on the forum the the new XStat panels are much more efficient and therefore are just as good as the older bigger panels, so would a Theos not be just as good in my situation?
I tend to change speakers about every year so resale value is important as well.

I have listened to the SL3's this week and they sound magical, although I did notice the sweet spot for imaging was narrow.

Any insights would be appreciated.

P.S. For home theater I don't use a center speaker and I intent to use a pair of Scenarios for surround.

The physics of wrap-around cancellation at lower frequencies for any dipole doesn't change for more efficient panels. That's about all I have as far as insight goes. Maybe that is less of a consideration for hybrids. None of the choices on your list is a full range ESL. Personally, I would hold out for CLS or CLX, but that's me.

As far as hybrids go, though, I decided to settle for Ascents in the early 2000's, because they were available at my local Tweeter's. I considered the panel/cone integration not very good. From what I've heard at shows, very casually, never with my choice of program material, integration is much better on the newer hybrids. So maybe, in addition to the panel replacement issue for older models, you should take that into account.

 

[Tmort]

Keep shopping, you should find a nice pair of used classic 9’s for under $4k, I went from electro motion ESL to them and it’s a world different. A good match for your room, mine is slightly smaller and they’re awesome.

 

[Flavio]

I have a pair of ESL 11A's Impressions for sale $6000 will get them have all the original box's and manuals. Will throw in a pair of Kimber-Kables with them

Thx, but way above my budget and I am in the Netherlands!

 

[jimbill]

There's a pair of 9's on usaudiomart.com for $3,000. But I guess, even with him driving 100 miles toward you, that might me a long haul...

 

[Brad225]

I missed that the SL2’a had new panels. If you’re looking for resale as a major part of your purchase, that may be your best bet.

For me having had SL3’s in the living room, and then the electro motion I think the electro motion had much better dispersion. Just my opinion.

 

[JonFo]

If the Theos is indeed from 2018, then that would be my choice. XStat panel, passive woofer system (easy to do active bass with external amp w/Build in XO).

The SL3 with brand new panels is tempting, but that would definitely need an active bass upgrade, along with possibly a woofer refresh to deliver the best results. So the Theos is the easiest to buy, deploy & enjoy.

 

[DanR]

There's a pair of 9's on usaudiomart.com for $3,000. But I guess, even with him driving 100 miles toward you, that might me a long haul...

Yep those are my 9A for sale on US Audio Mart, two people interested one east of Montreal and the other in Tacoma WA. Had them listed here and ZERO interest in them. They are really good speakers and can be had for a very good price.

 

[ejspain]

I have a pair of ESL 11A's Impressions for sale $6000 will get them have all the original box's and manuals. Will throw in a pair of Kimber-Kables with them

WOW that's a great deal. How long have you had them? Surprised you still have them at that price.

 

[Brandon Hartwick]

If it was me I'd go with the SL3, even if the panels aren't new they should still last a very long time. Also I think the form factor of that speaker is just about perfect for most living spaces.

You could easily take the money saved and do some improvements like adding an amp with active crossovers on the woofers. IMO that's the biggest difference between new and old models.

 

[Flavio]

If the Theos is indeed from 2018, then that would be my choice. XStat panel, passive woofer system (easy to do active bass with external amp w/Build in XO).

The SL3 with brand new panels is tempting, but that would definitely need an active bass upgrade, along with possibly a woofer refresh to deliver the best results. So the Theos is the easiest to buy, deploy & enjoy.

The serial numbers of the Theos are ACA2014 987G02 and 988G02, which I cannot decode, but could it be 2014 production?

 

[Tosh]

For longevity you'll want Gen2 panels (with the clear spars) or later models. For adequate ESL goodness/cone woofer weakness quotient, you need approx 1 x 4 feet ESL and sealed box woofer, to be active xo, or made active later. Since 2014, I have Ascent'i' which is one of the unpolished jewels in the ML lineup, before they got too complicated and pricey...

 

[khenegar]

For longevity you'll want Gen2 panels (with the clear spars) or later models. For adequate ESL goodness/cone woofer weakness quotient, you need approx 1 x 4 feet ESL and sealed box woofer, to be active xo, or made active later. Since 2014, I have Ascent'i' which is one of the unpolished jewels in the ML lineup, before they got too complicated and pricey...

flavio: buy a used pair of summits outstanding speaker u have a speaker that performs both good in the bottom end and top end and easy to drive (92db) efficient since u only have to power the panel, the woofers are self powered. and has the new designed stats.

 

[Mirolab]

If it was me I'd go with the SL3, even if the panels aren't new they should still last a very long time. Also I think the form factor of that speaker is just about perfect for most living spaces.

You could easily take the money saved and do some improvements like adding an amp with active crossovers on the woofers. IMO that's the biggest difference between new and old models.

Brandon, I echo your statement! I've alway felt that the SL3 was the ideal size-to-performance compromise for a Martin Logan. I think ML really ought to make a modern version of it with an active woofer, and beautiful wood trim. SL3 has a 10" wide panel with a 10" woofer, and it's only 15" deep. It takes up no more floor space than a bookshelf speaker on a stand. As much as I admire the new series, I think they are UG-Lee, and the depth of the woofer cabinet is unacceptable in my room. I have SL3's, now with new panels, and I love them. Their only weakness is that I don't have active control over the woofer.

 

[Tosh]

Back in 2008 I placed a wanted ad in Audiogon for a pair of SL3, as it indeed has the basics right: 1x4 ft panel and sealed box woofer w low 250Hz xo point. And I found a pair right away, of the last year SL3 made in 2000! (Then I took a good long while -- too long!-- to make the bass active, which was pretty eye-popping.)
But then in 2014 I stumbled upon a pair of Ascent'i' which I grabbed. This time I didn't waste one minute converting them to active bass, and I'm still in awe of them today. Properly the Ascent'i' should be thought of as an 'SL8,' as it is SO MUCH improved over the SL3: Larger thicker cabinet with stonking aluminum cone woofer, more efficient ESL panel, better xo...

 

[Mirolab]

Back in 2008 I placed a wanted ad in Audiogon for a pair of SL3, as it indeed has the basics right: 1x4 ft panel and sealed box woofer w low 250Hz xo point. And I found a pair right away, of the last year SL3 made in 2000! (Then I took a good long while -- too long!-- to make the bass active, which was pretty eye-popping.)
But then in 2014 I stumbled upon a pair of Ascent'i' which I grabbed. This time I didn't waste one minute converting them to active bass, and I'm still in awe of them today. Properly the Ascent'i' should be thought of as an 'SL8,' as it is SO MUCH improved over the SL3: Larger thicker cabinet with stonking aluminum cone woofer, more efficient ESL panel, better xo...

Tosh, if you don't mind my asking, what hardware are you using for your SL3 active bass? Did you go full active 2-way crossover, or just on the woofer? I like to just add a plate sub amplifier, but they never go up high enough.

 

[jtucker]

I hate to complicate matters, but when I was shopping, I found a large performance jump going from Theos to Ethos. The Theos just didn't do it for me. Bought the Ethos then upgraded fairly soon to Montis.