Vista vs. Vantage, first impressions...

[IWalker]

I thought this same thing earlier. Lets say I had two VK-500's and was bi-amping the Vistas. I think the panels would sound just as good as my Vantages do now. They are the same panels. I am not hearing a better panel in the Vantage, just a better controlled one due only (in my opinion) to the bi-amping. They do have different woofers and enclosures so the Vantage would probably sound better, even with a stronger amp on the Vistas woofer. There is also a slightly different x-over but nothing that would change the panel that much. With the Vantage the x-over point is 400 vs. 450 in the Vista (I think thats how it went).

But the money is better spent with the Vantage vs. bi-amped Vistas, Vantages cost around $1300 more and you have the bass adjustment. Another VK-500 would be around $2200-$2500 (used agon) and you still wouldnt have the high-excursion woofers. Now you could get a cheaper amp, say for me a VK-200 for around $1000 but I still think it wouldnt sound as good as the Vantage (due to the woofer and enclosure) and wouldnt be as flexible. And those amp prices are used, if new double the cost of bi-amping. As we all know the Martin Logan does not buy used amps to power their Vantages so apples to apples is new vs. new.

You could get a pro-amp ($300-400), which is much less expensive, and plenty capable of high-end quality on the bass. Then you still have money to put towards a sub (used descent, $1500). Once you cross over at 80Hz, you likely wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two. However, that is speculation, as I've never been able to do that test!

You're right too, though, that the woofers are different, and could perform differently above 80Hz, so it's hard to know. Also, I think the crossover point on the two speakers is different, which could favor either one, depending on preference.

I think they did a good job with price positioning to make both models attractive to people....and allowing Vista people to do a pseudo-upgrade to vantages for the cost of an amp.

For an apples to apples comparison, you'd need to get an unchassied bass amp of some variety, which can be gotten very cheaply.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-750
per channel. Comes out to $300 or so. But that wouldn't mount so well on your Vista

Another alternative is the Crown XLS 402, which costs $400 but has a $120 rebate right now, bringing it to $280. Then you have money for some descent love!!! http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XLS402/

 

[twich54]

After listening to summits/ and listening to Odyssey-Descent combo.... I think the additional bass gives the illusion that the panels sound different. With the powered woofers in the summits and the odyssey-descent combo - there is a more solid sound - more 3 D sound in my opinion of course. I think it impacts the way the mids/highs sound - as well as the lows of course. The concept of a 'seemless' woofer/stat is what makes it so... We have a tendency to split the sound of the panels - from the sound of the bass - when in actuality we are listening to BOTH - and the interaction of the two is what makes the speaker sound so great. In other words - additional bass response in the room impacts the sound of the panel - just like a room treatment would.....My long boring opinion of course!!

Timm, I agree, without totally understanding why ! But as others have said the fact of the ESL panel on the Vantage's being fed and driven while the bottom end is only fed by the amplfier makes sense as well.