Vista sparking

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wgirwin

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Jun 7, 2020
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Location
Apollo Beach, Fla 33572
I have shut down my ML Vistas (love them!) over night and vacuumed 3 times but the spitting/sparking is getting worse. I owned and operated Audio Clinic in the '80s in Rochester NY and am proud that we had over a dozen high end warranty repair services. I also have owned and maintained several other ESLs for years. I cannot find a service manual for disassembly/repair of these. I don't want to harm them, but I need to inspect/clean/repair my set. The manual says the sparking won't harm the speaker, but it does harm the sound. Please help!
 
I had my Vistas for 7 wonderful years!

You'll need to use a magnifier and flashlight to see if some tiny bug or floating hair or something has gotten in there, or, look for wrinkles that might suggest the mylar is coming loose at the edge somewhere.

edit: Actually I just realized you mentioned "getting worse", which is more probable the second suggestion I made.
 
Yep - as above, shine a light at angles up and down then panel to find an anomaly. The easy part - the noise will be coming from where the problem is.
 
I got a gnat in my Summit panel once.. it sparked and killed the little guy. I powered them off for 24 hours, did a vacuum and they were good as new.
 
I had my Vistas for 7 wonderful years!

You'll need to use a magnifier and flashlight to see if some tiny bug or floating hair or something has gotten in there, or, look for wrinkles that might suggest the mylar is coming loose at the edge somewhere.

edit: Actually I just realized you mentioned "getting worse", which is more probable the second suggestion I made.
Thanks for the help. I changed the vacuum cleaner bag to get more vacuum, and after another overnight shutdown the dog hair and dust apparently went away - problem solved. Back to loving them. Easy! I was not looking forward to opening them up. Yeah!!!
 
I don't think you want to even try that, panels are glued together really well, and if the mylar gets lose, then it's all over.

Since you tried suction, next thing to try is blowing them out with some compressed air, just don't get the nozzle so close it rips the mylar. But the material is pretty tough, others have indicated the diagram can be up against the opposing stator and it's fine. And that what you want if you have something lodged in there.
 
I don't think you want to even try that, panels are glued together really well, and if the mylar gets lose, then it's all over.

Since you tried suction, next thing to try is blowing them out with some compressed air, just don't get the nozzle so close it rips the mylar. But the material is pretty tough, others have indicated the diagram can be up against the opposing stator and it's fine. And that what you want if you have something lodged in there.
Thanks for the reply! I will try my compressor but I am a bit nervous about high pressure air. My understanding of stats suggest that they are a sandwich of 5 layers. The center is the Mylar sheet with the high DC voltage, the next layer in each direction is the screen with the high voltage audio signal. These three layers are the active elements that create sound and they constitute the glued sandwich, and the outer 2 layers are the protective grid for safety and looks and I believe these are grounded. It seems that those outer grids could be carefully removed to allow a closer inspection/cleaning of the 3 layer audio screen sandwich for the debris causing the sparks/snapping. I also need to use the darkness and strong light (and my daughter's younger eyes!) for inspection.
 
Hola W,

All the sections of the panel are energised with the bias voltage. There is no ground. You have pure DC at the whole diaphragm and sound too. If you have a dead section, then you must replace that panel. The front iron panel is the + and the back iron panel is the -. The diaphragm is as a sandwich.

There is a debris that you are not removing. With the help of a paint brush might do the job too. Avoid heavy high air pressure. You can adjust for safe at 25 to 30 ips. Do not apply more, because you can blow out the diaphragm and you do not want to do that. Because the odd noise is coming from a certain place, you can scrub lightly right there where it is.

Remember, the diaphragm is so light that it weights less than the air that it moves...treat it very carefully.

Happy listening!
 
You can take it off for a shower, there are six screws in total you need to remove. 4 at the bottom and 2 behind the panel. Once you've got the frame off. You'll need to remove the tensioner nuts at the bottom and some screws on the frame itself. After that you slide the top struct off and pull the frame apart. I washed mine using simple green, which didn't seem to have any negative impact on the panels. When you wash your panel, simply spray the cleaner on and agitate with a soft dense makeup brush. Then rinse it really good with tap water. Finally, you'll want to flush it with plenty of distilled water. You can get them pretty cheaply at Walmart for 97cents/4L. Dry it as best as you can, and then put it in a shady place to dry for couple of days. Then you should be good to go. The makeup brush is a very useful tool even for regular cleaning. I used the brush to clean mine regularly with vacuum. The brush turned black at the first time and I can never wash the color off the brush anymore. Most likely the panel has attracted lots of micro particles of dust which is very hard to wash off, but that also means that the brush works. Make sure you get a soft brush as dense as possible so it'll be the most efficient. Good luck.
 
Hola W,

All the sections of the panel are energised with the bias voltage. There is no ground. You have pure DC at the whole diaphragm and sound too. If you have a dead section, then you must replace that panel. The front iron panel is the + and the back iron panel is the -. The diaphragm is as a sandwich.

There is a debris that you are not removing. With the help of a paint brush might do the job too. Avoid heavy high air pressure. You can adjust for safe at 25 to 30 ips. Do not apply more, because you can blow out the diaphragm and you do not want to do that. Because the odd noise is coming from a certain place, you can scrub lightly right there where it is.

Remember, the diaphragm is so light that it weights less than the air that it moves...treat it very carefully.

Happy listening!
Thanks for the info. Low pressure and careful. But if the outer black panel screens are live with high voltage audio then I suggest you never touch the front and back at the same time while playing them. That sounds like a safety issue, so I suggest those outer panels are not live.
 
You can take it off for a shower, there are six screws in total you need to remove. 4 at the bottom and 2 behind the panel. Once you've got the frame off. You'll need to remove the tensioner nuts at the bottom and some screws on the frame itself. After that you slide the top struct off and pull the frame apart. I washed mine using simple green, which didn't seem to have any negative impact on the panels. When you wash your panel, simply spray the cleaner on and agitate with a soft dense makeup brush. Then rinse it really good with tap water. Finally, you'll want to flush it with plenty of distilled water. You can get them pretty cheaply at Walmart for 97cents/4L. Dry it as best as you can, and then put it in a shady place to dry for couple of days. Then you should be good to go. The makeup brush is a very useful tool even for regular cleaning. I used the brush to clean mine regularly with vacuum. The brush turned black at the first time and I can never wash the color off the brush anymore. Most likely the panel has attracted lots of micro particles of dust which is very hard to wash off, but that also means that the brush works. Make sure you get a soft brush as dense as possible so it'll be the most efficient. Good luck.
OK, I got the woofer panel off and was astounded at the blanket of dust that has collected on that 'plastic' bottom plate. The small felt? strips (that prevent rattles?) seem to fall apart. Now the last 2 screws are out from the plate above the woofer and the stat panels are rocking slightly but something seems stuck. I suspect that curved cover panel is stuck to the black woofer box finish/paint, and I am worried about breaking something if I force things too hard. I can see the colored wires underneath that panel but it does not budge. Suggestions? Too much caution?
 
OK, I got the woofer panel off and was astounded at the blanket of dust that has collected on that 'plastic' bottom plate. The small felt? strips (that prevent rattles?) seem to fall apart. Now the last 2 screws are out from the plate above the woofer and the stat panels are rocking slightly but something seems stuck. I suspect that curved cover panel is stuck to the black woofer box finish/paint, and I am worried about breaking something if I force things too hard. I can see the colored wires underneath that panel but it does not budge. Suggestions? Too much caution?
Oops, found the other screws on the top of the woofer box behind the screens. Got it!
 
OK, I got the woofer panel off and was astounded at the blanket of dust that has collected on that 'plastic' bottom plate. The small felt? strips (that prevent rattles?) seem to fall apart. Now the last 2 screws are out from the plate above the woofer and the stat panels are rocking slightly but something seems stuck. I suspect that curved cover panel is stuck to the black woofer box finish/paint, and I am worried about breaking something if I force things too hard. I can see the colored wires underneath that panel but it does not budge. Suggestions? Too much caution?
Oops, found the other 2 screws behind the panel on top of the woofer box. AOK!
 
I removed the stat panel from the woofer box to inspect and clean, and you are correct, there are only 3 layers - the outer panels are energized and my wife got a surprise when she was trying to locate the sparking with her hands on both front and back panels at the same time with music.
 
While removing the stat panels I noticed that the bottom plate was damaged where the stat panels attach to that bottom plate. They attach to rods that feel like tensioners for the panel. I will have to replace that plate. Does ML sell replacement parts?
I am not eager to actually disassemble the stat panel itself but it needs cleaning for sure.
 
I had my Vistas for 7 wonderful years!

You'll need to use a magnifier and flashlight to see if some tiny bug or floating hair or something has gotten in there, or, look for wrinkles that might suggest the mylar is coming loose at the edge somewhere.

edit: Actually I just realized you mentioned "getting worse", which is more probable the second suggestion I made.
If the stat panel is coming apart which I suspect after vacuuming, does ML sell parts? I may need a replacement stat panel.
 
They are sold in pairs. 1-1/2 years ago when I was thinking about proactively ordering a pair of panels for my Vistas the cost was $1979.36 plus shipping.
 
They are sold in pairs. 1-1/2 years ago when I was thinking about proactively ordering a pair of panels for my Vistas the cost was $1979.36 plus shipping.
Thanks for that info. My 13 yr old receipt shows we paid $3550 for the whole pair. I'm betting they cost more today. Do you know if they recycle the old panels?
 
They are sold in pairs. 1-1/2 years ago when I was thinking about proactively ordering a pair of panels for my Vistas the cost was $1979.36 plus shipping.
Thanks for that info. My receipt shows we paid $3550 for the pair new. I bet that has gone up. I wonder if they return/recycle the old panels.
 
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