TonePub is right, with 860 sq ft !!! holly molly, even the Summitt's will seem small !!
Don't even think about the Vanatage's in that large a room.
Don't even think about the Vanatage's in that large a room.
Vantage or Summits?
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plt21
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David100, if you do not want to regret your investment decision in the future, the first thing you should do, in my opinion (FWIW), is put the urge to “buy this weekend” aside. Your urge, combined with mine or anyone else’s opinion of which one is a better choice (not important), might lead you to the wrong choice. It’s a large investment, you will be the one paying for it, you will be the one doing the listening, and if you want to be able to live with your choice for a while, you owe it to yourself to let your ears be the best judge. For less than a €100, Ryanair can take you pretty much to any capital in Europe. Call the London ML distributor, it’s not that far from you, and arrange to have a side-by-side comparison. The money spent to get that comparison is an excellent investment – it will give you a piece of mind, will solve your constant future agonizing (Did I make the right choice?), and it might be fun too. Pull out your 10 favorite CDs from your collection and let your ears decide.
There is nothing wrong with either choice, you know best what type of music you like, how loud you like to play it and what’s important to you in sound (whether it’s imaging, deep and accurate bass…). There is nothing wrong with adding a subwoofer. You might actually be surprised of what 1 or 2 subs can do for you. If, for example, Madonna’s Confessions on the dance floor happens to be one of your favorite CDs, the Summits will do very little, other than bass and loudness, to improve your listening pleasure, because in such a studio recording imaging is not important, there is no true soundstage and you are not fully taking advantage of the Summits’ strong attributes. The Vantages paired to 1 or 2 Descent or Depth subwoofers might give you much more satisfying results than the Summits. The Subs will let you enjoy that deep electronic bass better, with more dynamics, depth and punch and fill up and energize your large room even better than the Summits if indeed bass is your concern.
So, be it a pair of Vantages + 1 sub + may be a better amp for the same money or a pair of Summits if they provide better synergy and satisfaction for you - invest your money where it improves your audio life the most, based on your own listening impressions and tastes in music. Music is a personal choice.
There is nothing wrong with either choice, you know best what type of music you like, how loud you like to play it and what’s important to you in sound (whether it’s imaging, deep and accurate bass…). There is nothing wrong with adding a subwoofer. You might actually be surprised of what 1 or 2 subs can do for you. If, for example, Madonna’s Confessions on the dance floor happens to be one of your favorite CDs, the Summits will do very little, other than bass and loudness, to improve your listening pleasure, because in such a studio recording imaging is not important, there is no true soundstage and you are not fully taking advantage of the Summits’ strong attributes. The Vantages paired to 1 or 2 Descent or Depth subwoofers might give you much more satisfying results than the Summits. The Subs will let you enjoy that deep electronic bass better, with more dynamics, depth and punch and fill up and energize your large room even better than the Summits if indeed bass is your concern.
So, be it a pair of Vantages + 1 sub + may be a better amp for the same money or a pair of Summits if they provide better synergy and satisfaction for you - invest your money where it improves your audio life the most, based on your own listening impressions and tastes in music. Music is a personal choice.
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Thank you very much for your answers.
Plt21, Actually I have heard both vantage and summit already. I repeated the experience several times, but in the shops the listening is often done in very small rooms. And of course both sound so great !
The point is it will sound differently in my bigger room, and beside the personal choice, I think there is also a pure non-subjective physical effect. I suppose that you need a bigger woofer in a bigger room to compress the air in an efficient way - I am not so sure about that, but I guess it is true. But I do not know if there is a somewhat as a "decision size". For example : If the room is bigger than X, go summits... Again the problem is that I cannot do the test in my own room for some reasons.
The other thing is I 100% agree that music is a personal choice. BUT I also thing the more you listen to high quality sound, the more yours ears get trained, and the more you feel the difference. So, Even if today I am not able to feel a decisive difference, I may feel it much more in the future. I suppose this is one of the reasons why so much people are doing upgrades.
This is the reason why I ask the question to this community : because there are a lot of "trained ears" here.:musicnote: Having years of experience ahead of me. My ears are not ready yet. I only thing I know is that when we go to enjoy a movie in my friend's HT room (they has a pair of request), and enjoy the marvellous sound, I come home thinking : for sure, this week-end is the last week-end without my own pair of ML's. But which ?
It will cost a lot more to buy Vantage now and upgrade next year - Therefore I try to do the long term choice right now and buy the speakers that I will keep for more than 10 or 15 years.
Of course there is not urge
but I am now thinking about this decision for at least six months...
Joey, I read your adventures, and saw that you upgraded. Have you sometimes regretted your upgrade, thinking that it was not worth it ?
Plt21, Actually I have heard both vantage and summit already. I repeated the experience several times, but in the shops the listening is often done in very small rooms. And of course both sound so great !
The point is it will sound differently in my bigger room, and beside the personal choice, I think there is also a pure non-subjective physical effect. I suppose that you need a bigger woofer in a bigger room to compress the air in an efficient way - I am not so sure about that, but I guess it is true. But I do not know if there is a somewhat as a "decision size". For example : If the room is bigger than X, go summits... Again the problem is that I cannot do the test in my own room for some reasons.
The other thing is I 100% agree that music is a personal choice. BUT I also thing the more you listen to high quality sound, the more yours ears get trained, and the more you feel the difference. So, Even if today I am not able to feel a decisive difference, I may feel it much more in the future. I suppose this is one of the reasons why so much people are doing upgrades.
This is the reason why I ask the question to this community : because there are a lot of "trained ears" here.:musicnote: Having years of experience ahead of me. My ears are not ready yet. I only thing I know is that when we go to enjoy a movie in my friend's HT room (they has a pair of request), and enjoy the marvellous sound, I come home thinking : for sure, this week-end is the last week-end without my own pair of ML's. But which ?
It will cost a lot more to buy Vantage now and upgrade next year - Therefore I try to do the long term choice right now and buy the speakers that I will keep for more than 10 or 15 years.
Of course there is not urge
but I am now thinking about this decision for at least six months... Joey, I read your adventures, and saw that you upgraded. Have you sometimes regretted your upgrade, thinking that it was not worth it ?
David, I gotta chime in here again ! First off don't think for a minute that even the Summitt's are going to fill the space your talking about with 'abundant' bass, they won't. Your going to possibly need to add a couple of subs.
Secondly, you mention about being over to a friends house and having been impressed with the 'sound track' from a movie. That sound track, unless it's on Blue Ray or HD-DVD, I don't think is close to the audio quality of SACD, Top notch Redbook and Viynl, and I'm not sure where the quality of the soundtrack on Blue Ray really stacks up.
Thirdly...... if HT is your main 'thing' then get the Summitt's and when time / money permit's put them to the rear and get a used pair of Statements for the front ! Ok , I'm being a little silly here, but seriously if you started out with Vantage's they could then be relegated to the rears in time with Summitt's up front.
Secondly, you mention about being over to a friends house and having been impressed with the 'sound track' from a movie. That sound track, unless it's on Blue Ray or HD-DVD, I don't think is close to the audio quality of SACD, Top notch Redbook and Viynl, and I'm not sure where the quality of the soundtrack on Blue Ray really stacks up.
Thirdly...... if HT is your main 'thing' then get the Summitt's and when time / money permit's put them to the rear and get a used pair of Statements for the front ! Ok , I'm being a little silly here, but seriously if you started out with Vantage's they could then be relegated to the rears in time with Summitt's up front.
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Ah ? Ok... well... My room is my living room... indeed not a dedicated room, now I Understand this can be a problem and will need some compromises.
Twich54, My primary interest is Hifi, but you now, HT with ML's and a pure Classe Audio top-notch system... not that bad, for me at least.
But anyway, all these answers were very helpul and I thank you very much.
Twich54, My primary interest is Hifi, but you now, HT with ML's and a pure Classe Audio top-notch system... not that bad, for me at least.
But anyway, all these answers were very helpul and I thank you very much.
Joey_V
Well-known member
David,
Yes, I have regretted certain moves I made though I chalk it up to learning experience and character building. That said, I mostly regret purchases that I make which are half-a$$ed... when I should've step up to the plate and bought what I really wanted instead of settling.
I'm trying to rectify one of those purchases as we speak.
Joey
PS
I can tell you that not once did I ever regret getting the Summits after the Vantage - not one minute.
Audioseduction
Well-known member
Sorry for changing subject, just wanted to know if SuperchargedWS6 has pics of his WS6. That is a bad azz car! :rocker: By the way, I do VERY MUCH ENJOY my Odysseys with the 15" Servo controlled sub! :music:
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Bernard
Well-known member
If you have to ask...........
lugano
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You need Prodigy's. You know you do. What else is a divorce good for if not upgrading ?
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tonepub
Senior Member
good advice. Sports cars are always pretty good at taking away the ex wife blues too.
Always worked for me. Dump wife or girlfriend, buy big speakers and red sports car = relief!
Always worked for me. Dump wife or girlfriend, buy big speakers and red sports car = relief!
Neil G
Member
SuperchargedWS6,
I saw your post regarding Summits vs Vantage. You mentioned that there's only one dealer in Saskatchewan, Canada and they never had in Summits. You must be referring to the previous dealer. We (Everest Audio) are the authorized dealer for MartinLogan and we had a demo pair of Summits around for over a year. One of our very good customers just recently purchased them.
We put on a hifi show at the Sandman Hotel last year in Regina where one of our systems featured the Summits driven by all Bel Canto separates. We actually had a couple of Bel Canto systems on display since John Stronczer (owner/designer of Bel Canto) joined us at our show for the whole weekend. If you'd like to see pictures from the show, use the link below:
http://www.everestaudio.com/hifishow/
I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience with the previous dealer. Be assured that I'll respond to you in a timely manner if you decide to contact me. Send me an email to my Everest Audio email address at any time. I'm new to this forum, so I'm not sure how often I'll log in.
I saw your post regarding Summits vs Vantage. You mentioned that there's only one dealer in Saskatchewan, Canada and they never had in Summits. You must be referring to the previous dealer. We (Everest Audio) are the authorized dealer for MartinLogan and we had a demo pair of Summits around for over a year. One of our very good customers just recently purchased them.
We put on a hifi show at the Sandman Hotel last year in Regina where one of our systems featured the Summits driven by all Bel Canto separates. We actually had a couple of Bel Canto systems on display since John Stronczer (owner/designer of Bel Canto) joined us at our show for the whole weekend. If you'd like to see pictures from the show, use the link below:
http://www.everestaudio.com/hifishow/
I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience with the previous dealer. Be assured that I'll respond to you in a timely manner if you decide to contact me. Send me an email to my Everest Audio email address at any time. I'm new to this forum, so I'm not sure how often I'll log in.
lugano
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The Prodigy is the last huge achievement from ML before going lifestyle.
This is it, orient yourself accordingly.
This is it, orient yourself accordingly.
I think that the Prodigy's have the best panel sound of any of ML's speakers, just from the sheer size of them. But the Summit's still out-do them in top-to-bottom coherence across the frequency spectrum. If you have the space and are looking for an awesome wall-of-sound type speaker, the Prodigy is for you. But if you are looking for one of the most accurate and coherent hybrid electrostatic speakers available, then go with the Summits. Either way, you are not likely to be disappointed. Are the Summits worth the price difference? Actually, there is no real price difference between these products other than depreciation. The Summits started out at the same price as the Prodigy left off. So with the Prodigy you will pay less on the used market due to age depreciation, and you will get a speaker with older electronics and panels.
Audioseduction
Well-known member
SuperchargedWS6, you have some pics of your WS6?
I've owned both the Vantages and Summits in a room a little smaller than yours. Both sound excellent and are worthy purchases. The Vantage only gives up a little to the Summit in terms of bass response (the Summit can shake your floorboards it goes so deep) and overall dimensionality. I love my Summits but agree they're not worth twice as much. There are lots of used Vantages on AudiogoN going for very good prices. Occasionally you'll see a pair of Summits for around $7500.
If your music is not taxing, then Vantages are fine. It's not until you go for significantly higher spl's and play more challenging music do you hear a SIGNIFICANT difference. For those that have never had the opportunity to audition both speakers in their own listening room, here's some thoughts...
Now, when playing a well recorded piece of music on the Vantage, the sound is awesome. Good bass. Great soundstage and imaging. Very coherent. You question how it could get much better than this. Then using the same amplifiers etc, play that same piece of music on Summits. All of a sudden you can hear low bass that wasn't there before (the room SHAKES with bass energy), the soundstage opens right up, the dynamics are enormous, just everything is so much bigger and more coherent. Now switch back to the Vantage. The tonal quality is still there and the highs and lows are still profound. The delicacy still impresses BUT... everything is on a smaller scale. That gut wrenching bass drive has diminished, the soundstage has collapsed slightly, the dynamics have reduced. You are very aware that you're listening to a smaller, more polite version of the Summit.
Playing well recorded dynamic tracks, the Summit just kills most other high end speakers - regardless of price. So is the Summit twice as good as the Vantage at twice the price?
(You could probably question whether the Vantage is worth the extra money over the Montage...)
So my answer is Yes. And No.
It depends on what you're looking for...
Now, when playing a well recorded piece of music on the Vantage, the sound is awesome. Good bass. Great soundstage and imaging. Very coherent. You question how it could get much better than this. Then using the same amplifiers etc, play that same piece of music on Summits. All of a sudden you can hear low bass that wasn't there before (the room SHAKES with bass energy), the soundstage opens right up, the dynamics are enormous, just everything is so much bigger and more coherent. Now switch back to the Vantage. The tonal quality is still there and the highs and lows are still profound. The delicacy still impresses BUT... everything is on a smaller scale. That gut wrenching bass drive has diminished, the soundstage has collapsed slightly, the dynamics have reduced. You are very aware that you're listening to a smaller, more polite version of the Summit.
Playing well recorded dynamic tracks, the Summit just kills most other high end speakers - regardless of price. So is the Summit twice as good as the Vantage at twice the price?
(You could probably question whether the Vantage is worth the extra money over the Montage...)
So my answer is Yes. And No.
It depends on what you're looking for...
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Bernard
Well-known member
That sounds like a nice, definite "maybe"
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