upgrade suggestions

[c_polevoy]

Hi All,

I could really use some help on making a decision on my future ML upgrade. My current living room home theater system consist of the ML Ethos, Stage X, Krell Chorus 7200 amp, Marantz 8802a preamp, Sunfire Sub and 4 surround sound speakers. I absolutely love the sound my Ethos gave me and i used them for all my movie and music listening for the past 5-6 years. recently i got the itch to upgrade... After talking to my local dealer, it seems like im at a cross road and would love to hear your advice:

Option A:
I can get a brand new summit X from him for $8k. it will come in the boxes, brand new with all accessories etc. he said he bought a few from ML back when they were about to discontinue them so he still have a couple and this would be my price.

Option B:
I can get a USED, no boxes, not sure about the accessories, but seems like in very good condition cosmetically and performance wise pair of the 13A which is obviously a current model. my price for this pair is actually $9K

Option C: compromise and get a brand new 11A model which will cost me less than either previous options, and will be brand new. just not sure about the sound...

85% of the time this system is used for movies / shows. i do love listening to music on it though as well. i would like to get the best sound possible, but obviously i am also kind of budget limited. i hope i provided all the info that can help you to help me make a solid decision

P.S. - if you have any other option / suggestion i would love to hear it. dont be shy!!!

 

[twich54]

what are the dimensions of you room ?

 

[timm]

Hi All,

I could really use some help on making a decision on my future ML upgrade. My current living room home theater system consist of the ML Ethos, Stage X, Krell Chorus 7200 amp, Marantz 8802a preamp, Sunfire Sub and 4 surround sound speakers. I absolutely love the sound my Ethos gave me and i used them for all my movie and music listening for the past 5-6 years. recently i got the itch to upgrade... After talking to my local dealer, it seems like im at a cross road and would love to hear your advice:

Option A:
I can get a brand new summit X from him for $8k. it will come in the boxes, brand new with all accessories etc. he said he bought a few from ML back when they were about to discontinue them so he still have a couple and this would be my price.

Option B:
I can get a USED, no boxes, not sure about the accessories, but seems like in very good condition cosmetically and performance wise pair of the 13A which is obviously a current model. my price for this pair is actually $9K

Option C: compromise and get a brand new 11A model which will cost me less than either previous options, and will be brand new. just not sure about the sound...

85% of the time this system is used for movies / shows. i do love listening to music on it though as well. i would like to get the best sound possible, but obviously i am also kind of budget limited. i hope i provided all the info that can help you to help me make a solid decision

P.S. - if you have any other option / suggestion i would love to hear it. dont be shy!!!

If it were me and I was looking at improving my mains - 13a. Have I heard them. No. But I do know it is latest tech. I know they can't be very old. I know they have room correction for bass. And I believe it's a bigger panel and a better bass cabinet.

Great if you can either play them / see them / find out why the sale. How are you transporting without boxes ? Are they in a store or a private sale?

Please play them in stereo sometimes.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Well, here's my two cents. If the ML's are to be used for HT 85% of the time and we know that HT sound is totally manipulated by some sound engineer, I would not spend that amount of money on the ML's. It is also likely that the speakers will be placed close to the back wall further compromising performance.

You can get a killer 5.1 or 7.1 surround system (dynamic driver based) that will likely outperform the ML's for far less money.

Gordon

 

[c_polevoy]

what are the dimensions of you room ?

do you mean the size of the room or my distance from the speakers? the room size is about 13W x 20L but i sit about 12 feet away from the tv / speakers, and the rest of the 8 feet is behind me.

 

[c_polevoy]

If it were me and I was looking at improving my mains - 13a. Have I heard them. No. But I do know it is latest tech. I know they can't be very old. I know they have room correction for bass. And I believe it's a bigger panel and a better bass cabinet.

Great if you can either play them / see them / find out why the sale. How are you transporting without boxes ? Are they in a store or a private sale?

Please play them in stereo sometimes.

thanks timm. they arent too old and they are a trade in pair from my dealer which is why no boxes. he is about 20 miles away from me so i can just pick them up without boxes and put them very carefully in my car.

 

[c_polevoy]

Well, here's my two cents. If the ML's are to be used for HT 85% of the time and we know that HT sound is totally manipulated by some sound engineer, I would not spend that amount of money on the ML's. It is also likely that the speakers will be placed close to the back wall further compromising performance.

You can get a killer 5.1 or 7.1 surround system (dynamic driver based) that will likely outperform the ML's for far less money.

Gordon

Thank you Gordon for the reply. i think i will stay with ML since i honestly LOVE the way they sound even for HT sound. also, the speakers stand as recommended by ML manual 2ft from the wall so thats working well.

 

[timm]

thanks timm. they arent too old and they are a trade in pair from my dealer which is why no boxes. he is about 20 miles away from me so i can just pick them up without boxes and put them very carefully in my car.

So in my opinion...what Gordon says has merit. From a 'I want MLs...and I'm gonna buy some' perspective - I believe in buying the best speaker room be damned !! The 13a is really a great killer 2 channel speaker. I am a 2 channel person.

 

[c_polevoy]

Gordon and timm, i appreciate your opinion but as i said, ill stay with ML. im sure there are some awesome 5.1/7.1 systems out there, but i already built mine to consist of stereo and center that are ML. other than how i love the sound, i also really like that the MLs arent power hungry, and that my Krell amp can drive all of my speakers despite being a 7 channel amp with only 200w/ch power. if i were to switch to something else im sure id need some monoblocks and such which unfortunately a bit too expensive for me atm.

so this brings me again to my initial question, do you think that a used, no boxes, more expensive 13A would be better than a brand new summit X? and by better i mean overall better choice. Im sure that both would be a good upgrade over my ethos regardless. just not sure if the extra 1K and no boxes are THAT MUCH better that i shouldnt consider the new summitx. and now im also thinking about overall resale value... if i sell them in 5 years for my next upgrade i wonder if the price drop will be way more significant on the summit x or the 13a. one will be discontinued for 6-7 years by then, but the other one will have missing boxes...

hope im not driving anyone insane but myself with this

 

[timm]

Gave my answer. 13a. No doubt. There was a fire sale on the summitx when it was discontinued. So I think the resale would be better on 13a. Secondly- it is the newest tech. This seems like a no brainer to me.

If your hiccup is the boxes - call ML - they might sell you some. But, I wouldn't care. I'd get the 13a regardless. There might also be companies that could pack them if you ever sold them. If your dealer has them - listen to them.

 

[Brad225]

Though your room may be a bit small for 13a's if you were running 2 channel only, your system and listening interest may change.

Concidering you will be spending about the same money I would to for the best speaker for the price that being the 13a.

Besides being a better speaker your resale, if you needed to, would be better.

 

[twich54]

Thank you Gordon for the reply. i think i will stay with ML since i honestly LOVE the way they sound even for HT sound. also, the speakers stand as recommended by ML manual 2ft from the wall so thats working well.

interesting for I don't recall ever seeing a 'recommendation' for being two feet from the wall. Now if you're talking minimum distance from side wall or a min distance from the back of the woofer enclosure to the wall behind, Ok I'll buy that as a 'min' only. The panels should be a minimum of 4' IMO and 6' is what I call the ideal.

I agree with Tim's assessment of the 13a situation as well.

 

[GW1800]

Hi All,


Option B:
I can get a USED, no boxes, not sure about the accessories, but seems like in very good condition cosmetically and performance wise pair of the 13A which is obviously a current model. my price for this pair is actually $9K


P.S. - if you have any other option / suggestion i would love to hear it. dont be shy!!!

I've had both the Summit X's and 13a's. Just recently updated to the 13a's. There is no doubt that the 13a's are better - the $1,000 you are paying more is well worth it. I also agree with the past comment to buy the best when you can which the 13a's certainly are. I'st a little disappointing that there is no boxes as they are heavy and awkward so take you time when moving if you go this way. I know only 15% of the time you listen to 2 channel but in a few years that may change and you will be glad you did this upgrade when you had the chance.

 

[Gordon Gray]

interesting for I don't recall ever seeing a 'recommendation' for being two feet from the wall. Now if you're talking minimum distance from side wall or a min distance from the back of the woofer enclosure to the wall behind, Ok I'll buy that as a 'min' only. The panels should be a minimum of 4' IMO and 6' is what I call the ideal.

I agree with Tim's assessment of the 13a situation as well.

Dave,

I agree with your minimum distance from panel to back wall. In the 25 years or so that I had ML's, I used five feet as a guideline.

Anything less than four feet will compromise the sonic performance of the speaker in areas of dimensionality and soundstage reproduction.

Gordon

 

[Joey_V]

I know exactly which dealer and which walnut 13a without boxes you are talking about.

If you are hung up on the used/traded in walnut 13a - why not buy brand new?

 

[JonFo]

+1 vote for the 13A's, their mid-bass performance is well ahead of the prior generation. And given your percentage of movie watching, it's something you will greatly appreciate.

If space is a constraint, and again, given your percentage on non-music sources, I'd optimize the location and sound by placing broadband absorbers (e.g. MiniTraps HF) directly behind the speakers and at the first reflection point of the REAR wave along the side walls. That will typically be a position just to the side or even behind the speakers, not ahead.

That will greatly enhance dialog intelligibility (lots of that in the L/R channels as well) as well as benefiting mid-bass performance.

My 5.2.4 setup is optimized for immersive audio of all kinds and features a ton (almost literally) of room treatments. The newest Atmos audio-centric recordings are spectacular on my rig. And movies, wow, no commercial cinema holds a candle.

BTW- you need more subs