UK newbie with CLSiiz - amp advice sought!

[JANDL100]

Hi - I live in the UK and have recently bought a pair of ML CLSiiz full range stats. Wonderful things! I currently drive them with a vintage Musical Fidelity A370 power amp, a 90lb 235wpc solid state amp, and it does a pretty good job.

I would, though, like to hear them with a valve amp. Any recommendations? - my budget is pretty limited at the moment. To give you an idea - I am currently considering a used ARC VT60, an old cj M75 or a pair of Opera Consonance M100SE 75W el34 monoblocks.

Any suggestions / advice? Many thanks!

Here's a pic of my setup - in a 12x20 foot room, firing down the length.

Jerry

 

[wallacefl]

I have CLSZ2 also ...tried Krell, MAC, Sunfire, tubes...love my Bryston 14BSST:music:

 

[Cherian]

I have not owned any CLSs but I can tell you on my monoliths 65 watts of tube power is not enough. I feel you will need 150 watts or more to power the CLS correctly.

 

[C.A.P]

CLS like current. LOTS of it.

 

[JANDL100]

So toobs are out for now, then?

Thanks for the thoughts, folks.

Does anyone here use tube amps with CLSiiz speakers? If so what & why?!

My musical tastes are fairly limited to classical - mostly small to medium scale stuff - so I'm not after lease-breaking levels.

Back in the day when CLSes were still being actively marketed in the UK, the distributor often used to run them with ARC M300 monoblocks with fairly awesome results, but they were also noted as being of susoect reliability.

So maybe I need to save up a few pennies before investing on the valve front and stay with my MF A370? Or would you knowledgable folk suggest I not go there at all?

For those that don't know the MF A370 amp, it's quite a monster and sounds good too. 235WPC, class A for the first 40 watts or so, I think. Good current output - said to exceed 50 amps. 90lb in a chunky cuboid case ....

 

[User211]

I feel compelled to answer this, since it's a UK post, but I can't answer it directly since I don't own CLSs.

I remember the A370 though - a very well rated amp in it's day. I seem to remember the descriptions stating it was a nice smooth sounding amp, though I have never personally heard it.

A departed member used a 75Watt MC275 to drive CLSs - see the recommended amplifier section. My gut instinct is that they really need more. Some here think a lot more. Only you can be the final judge depending on your particular needs. Use your own head and try a few valve based amps before you buy them if you can.

Good luck.

 

[mosttoysrk]

Stay tuned, a review is in the works comparing the MC275 and the MC252 driving the CLS speakers for an upcoming issue of Tone Audio. Jeff, I hope this little teaser is ok.
rich

 

[Brad225]

Welcome JANDL100, nice to see another pair of CLS's making someone happy.
I have CLSIIz's I powered them with ARC Classic 120's -110 watts - with no problem. I am now using
ARC VTM200's. I would say there was little difference in the volume and ability to drive my CLS's just a different sound.
Unless you listen very loud I would think a good 75-100 watts would be plenty. Just be sure they can handle ohm load and have high current.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Welcome to the club,

I too have CLSiiz's and I do drive them with a tube (valve) amp. I am using the Conrad Johnson LP70S. I do not play them at ear bleeding volumes yet I do have plenty of volume for when it is needed. Would more power -current be better maybe, but in my case, it would be a waste of electricity. I also use my CLSiiZ's as part of my HT setup and they play just fine.

What you want to make sure of, is that if you do decide to get a valve amp, make sure it has the ability to provide enough current for the CLS. The earlier version were current hungry. One of the features of the iiZ version was they were a little easier to drive with out an enormous amount of power.

I would say if you can borrow or be able to do an in home demo of some different valve amps, I would definitely do that first before spending any money. From what you have stated about musical taste I would say that a valve amp would just make it all that much sweeter.

Good luck

Jeff

 

[JANDL100]

Thanks for your comments, folks. It looks like, given my musical tastes, that a 70wpc+ tube amp would be OK in principle.

I may have a chance to try a pair of PrimaLuna Prologue 6 monoblocks (4x EL34 each) - these are 70W each and have taps for 2, 4 & 8 ohms and are said to be load tolerant. You can also swap in other tube types (kt66, kt88, 6550 etc) due to the clever onboard auto-bias circuit. I think Kevin Deal at Upscale Audio sells these in the USA.

I'm keeping my eye out on on eBay.uk and other used hifi resources in the UK ... so maybe something else of interest will come along as well. There is also a cj premier 11, but at a little more than I want to spend at present.

Thanks again for the advice so far!

 

[User211]

Hi - whereabouts in the UK are you (about)?

I'd just love to come and have a listen to your CLSs if you happened to be within a reasonable (100 mile) distance of Bristol... could even bring my amps but I'd probably break my back doing it

Seriously, check my system page. If my amps worked well with them and I liked the results, I would probably go for a pair and use my Descent to back them up.

 

[JANDL100]

Hi "user211"

How do I get to your system page? - I'm new around here! There seem to be endless pages of systems - where's yours? - a link would be handy!

 

[User211]

Hi "JANDL100",

At the bottom of each of my posts there is a signature - it contains a link to my system - just click on it - it is underlined, meaning it is a hyperlink.

Justin

 

[JANDL100]

Hi Justin

- aha - so that's a link! OK - you live and learn. Well, I do - sometimes!

Yes, in fact you are probably 30 -40 miles or so from me. Small world! You have a PM.

 

[JANDL100]

Hi again - you may remember me from a few months ago - UK owner of CLSiiz asking for advice on tube amps ....

I may have a chance to try a pair of PrimaLuna Prologue 6 monoblocks (4x EL34 each) - these are 70W each and have taps for 2, 4 & 8 ohms and are said to be load tolerant.

Well, I tried those PL 70 watters. Whoa - no way. They were totally clueless driving the CLSiiz. Limp and gutless and uninteresting and bland. (Or maybe thst's just the "PL Sound". - actually I think that I just don't get on with EL34 tubes. previous experience would seem to suggest that.)

Since then I have swapped my vintage Musical Fidelity A370 power amp (see posts above) for a Bel Canto eVo4 bridged to stereo mode. Very nice indeed - loads of power and a sweeter sound than the old MF which sounded a bit too bright in comparison.

Also now using a vintage Musical Fidelity F22 tube pre-amp (rather than the Meitner PA6i solid stater that I previously owned). This seems to give the overall presentation that 'tube flavor'. (I do seem to like vintage MF gear!).

I'm happy enough with the Bel Canto class D power - but I still have a hankering to find a suitable valve amp! Some folks never learn.

 

[User211]

Hmm.. I never did come round to listen to those CLSs, did I?

If you want, you can listen to my amps via the Ascent/Descent - might give you an idea of what powerful 211 SEs (powerful for an SE amp, that is) can do with MLs... they're hard to pick up for a reasonable price, though. Also, the Ascents probably are easier to drive, I believe, than the CLS.

Just PM me... but you'd probably have to get round this w/e - I'm about to swap over to Apogee Duetta Sigs for a while, to see if I prefer them.

 

[engtaz]

Great gear and Welcome JANDL100.

 

[Dan Osib]

JANDL100,
Hi, I'm in the UK and I also own CLS IIz's with black ash frames. The ultimate valve amp to partner with your speakers would be the near state of the art Conrad Johnson Premier 8A monoblocks. These have 140 or so watts of power per channel which will run CLS IIz's to high levels. Unfortunately you'll need £4000 approx to acquire a set of these used on Audiogon. I can't afford this so I went out and bought a pair of Odyssey Monoblock SE's which come close to the Conrad's but for a low price of £1500 new. These sound great with my CLS's. Your best bet for a good valve amp partner to the CLS's without spending a fortune is something like Icon Audio or Audio Innovations range of power amps.

 

[JANDL100]

Thanks folks ....

User211 - I'm busy this weekend, so I guess our meetup will have to wait. Apogee Duetta Sigs? Interesting - I used to have Caliper Sigs. I found them more dynamic than CLS but significantly more coloured and a bit slower. I think they are even more difficult for an amp to drive, too. Be interesting to see how you think the Duetta Sig fares. Will you be posting about it on this forum?

Dan - thanks for your comments. Hmmm ... £4k is a bit out of the question for a CJ, especially as my Bel Canto is doing a very nice job indeed (I was surprised how easily and well it drives the CLS, but it does have a 'real' (read: hefty!) power supply to back up its 400wpc). I shall definitely look into your Odysseys, they do sound interesting.

___

One thing that does concern me .... Given how the CLS's impedance varies so dramatically with frequency (dropping so low at high freqs) - doesn't this cause significant frequency response anomalies/variations when driven by the output impedance of a valve amp?

 

[User211]

User211 - I'm busy this weekend, so I guess our meetup will have to wait. Apogee Duetta Sigs? Interesting - I used to have Caliper Sigs. I found them more dynamic than CLS but significantly more coloured and a bit slower. I think they are even more difficult for an amp to drive, too. Be interesting to see how you think the Duetta Sig fares. Will you be posting about it on this forum?

Yeah - I sure will. Have to remember though, that they aren't really the genuine article - they have lighter ribbons than the original, for instance. All ribbons replaced by Graz's.

More info here: http://www.apogeeacoustics.com/index.html

Rest assured I will tell the "truth" as I see/hear it, and not spout out some BS about how great they are, if they aren't, if you catch my drift!

Half expecting to need meatier amps - but I really hope not. Time will tell...