To add or not-to-add Sub with a 2-channel pre-amp?

[adanny]

Hi Folks

I upgraded to Summits about 9 months back and have been delighted with them. Used 70% for music and 30% HT. For HT, I use a Parasound Halo C2, Scripts and a Stage center. For 2 channel, I use a TADAC tube pre-amp. I also have an old SVS PC20-39+ cylindrical sub which is connected to the LFE out of the Parasound. Therefore, it is used for HT but not for 2-ch.

I LOVE the TADAC 2 ch sound and it is order-magnitude better than the Parasound. It also has an HT pass thru function that allows seamless listening of HT without switching cables so its great. I would never change it.

All that said, I have been reading the articles about how a sub such as the JL Audio f113 is a meaningful improvement on the Summits. I'm on the fence about plonking down and getting 1-2 of these subs but have the following doubts?
a) Do they really improve 2-ch sound? Understand jury is divided on these?
b) How do I connect them to BOTH the LFE of the parasound and to the 2-ch TADAC pre-amp, without having to switch cables?

I wouldnt buy them just for HT so if I cant figure out a way to connect them relatively easily to both the Parasound and the TADAC, I might reluctantly pass.

Thoughts?
Thanks
adanny

 

[babydoc]

Summits with subs?

Hi Folks

I upgraded to Summits about 9 months back and have been delighted with them. Used 70% for music and 30% HT. For HT, I use a Parasound Halo C2, Scripts and a Stage center. For 2 channel, I use a TADAC tube pre-amp. I also have an old SVS PC20-39+ cylindrical sub which is connected to the LFE out of the Parasound. Therefore, it is used for HT but not for 2-ch.

I LOVE the TADAC 2 ch sound and it is order-magnitude better than the Parasound. It also has an HT pass thru function that allows seamless listening of HT without switching cables so its great. I would never change it.

All that said, I have been reading the articles about how a sub such as the JL Audio f113 is a meaningful improvement on the Summits. I'm on the fence about plonking down and getting 1-2 of these subs but have the following doubts?
a) Do they really improve 2-ch sound? Understand jury is divided on these?
b) How do I connect them to BOTH the LFE of the parasound and to the 2-ch TADAC pre-amp, without having to switch cables?

I wouldnt buy them just for HT so if I cant figure out a way to connect them relatively easily to both the Parasound and the TADAC, I might reluctantly pass.

Thoughts?
Thanks
adanny

First, you have not described your room dimensions or speaker placement. This would be critical to your benefiting from adding 1 or 2 subs to your system. The Summits have plenty of bass and if your room is small (less than 12 x 15) you might get bass overload. I am not familiar with the TADAC but I think the JC2 has an extra preamp out that could go directly to a sub since it is already powered. I started out with two Descents for my Summits and added to rear subs for HT. The LFE adjustments are made usually from your surround processor not the sub itself.
It sounds like you want to switch back and forth between preamps for two channel and surround HT listening. A better approach is to bite the bullet and buy a decent surround processor that you could run in an aux or tape input if surround loop is not available. It could be defeated for two channel listening and would allow you to keep your favorite preamp in the system all of the time

 

[kach22i]

I'm on the fence about plonking down and getting 1-2 of these subs

What are your room dimensions?

W x L x H

 

[adanny]

First, you have not described your room dimensions or speaker placement. This would be critical to your benefiting from adding 1 or 2 subs to your system. The Summits have plenty of bass and if your room is small (less than 12 x 15) you might get bass overload. I am not familiar with the TADAC but I think the JC2 has an extra preamp out that could go directly to a sub since it is already powered. I started out with two Descents for my Summits and added to rear subs for HT. The LFE adjustments are made usually from your surround processor not the sub itself.
It sounds like you want to switch back and forth between preamps for two channel and surround HT listening. A better approach is to bite the bullet and buy a decent surround processor that you could run in an aux or tape input if surround loop is not available. It could be defeated for two channel listening and would allow you to keep your favorite preamp in the system all of the time

sorry, should have mentioned, the family room this is installed in is big-gish. 24 x 22 x 11 (or thereabouts). It is also completely open on one end to the kitchen and the rest of the house. I definitely wont have too much bass, i dont think... Just wondering if I will really hear the advantage over the summits already decent bass and whether the connections to retain my 2-ch pre-amp will be too cumbersome. Retaining the TADAC for 2-ch music trumps all other considerations (its that good)

Not sure I follow your second piece of advice but it sounds intriguing. i dont want to change too many electronics because the system was wired and remote prograamed professionally. I tinker with it a lot but dont put it on a jack and take the engine out if you know what I mean...

 

[adanny]

Forum folks will recall that I had originally posed two questions:
a) Do subs really improve 2-ch sound for Summits?
b) If I use a Parasound Halo surround processor for HT, and a TADAC 2-ch pre-amp for music (and have no intention of changing either), how would I connect 2 subs to BOTH the LFE of the parasound and to the 2-ch TADAC pre-amp, without having to switch cables?

Some additional facts to help problem solve the second question...
1. The Parasound Halo has 3 subwoofer outputs. An XLR LFE, and two identical RCA LFEs. It has complete bass management capability
2. The TADAC pre-amp has L/R XLR outputs as well as L/R RCA outputs. It does not have any bass management or crossover capability.
3. My Summits are connected to the TADAC pre-amp - NOT the Parasound. The TADAC has an "HT pass through mode" where you can input 2-ch sound to it from a processor and it will "pass through" that sound straight to the speakers if desired.

After some consideration, how does the following idea grab the people here, especially Summit/Spire/JLAudio owners....

1. I buy 2 f113's I think I was going to do that anyway...was just looking for a little upgrad-itis validation Still sort of considering the Descent i's but it looks like the fathoms are generally considered superior and the perceived advantage of the Descent to blend better with the Summits is not that compelling

2. I connect BOTH the processor and the pre-amp to the fathoms! That way, when I have the processor on for HT duties, the fathoms receive signal from the processor. When I have the pre-amp on for 2-ch duties, the processor will be off (or on mute) and the fathoms will receive a pre-amp generated bass signal.

Is this idea somehow fundmentally flawed? The fathom has plenty of XLR and RCA inputs in the back so it can certainly allow connection of 2 separate wires from 2 sources...

I could think of 2 disadvantages:
a) I may have to add a crossover between the pre-amp output and the Summit input if I dont want the Summits to run full range. But thats ok - sounds like the Marchand active crossover (and others) are quite good performers under $1k
b) In HT mode, it is possible that the fathoms will receive an LFE input from the processor as well as an additional input from the pre-amp. Will that confuse the Fathom?

Im sure the above was all clear as mud but would love ya'll's views...
cheers
adanny