The MartinLogan / Planète Haute-Fidélité Room |

[christopherf]

I just came across this observation about our beloved ML speakers and electrostatics in general. It is a very good question and I have been thinking about the same thing. Is it because we are collectively of a certain age and cannot devote precious time to championing/advocating for this technology?

I seem to hear and read less about electrostatic speakers than I used to. I know they've always been a niche within another niche—audiophile speakers—but I remember the days when a vocal segment of passionate electrostatic devotees swore by the technology and refused to settle for the boxy colorations of your typical boxy speaker. Somehow, along the way, electrostatic speakers have become less visible, in the press as well as at audio shows.

That's a shame. Because whenever I do come across a pair of well-designed electrostatics and take a moment to listen to them, I'm reminded of how wonderful it is to hear so little distortion—10 to 100 times less than that produced by a traditional speaker. There's a sense of ease, purity, and transparency to the sound that few cones-in-a-box can match.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/martin-logan-planète-haute-fidélité-room

 

[Robert D]

Some of our members are concerned that Martin Logan may pretty much abandon electrostats and concentrate mostly on their conventional traditional speaker lines. We have a good thread on that here. I would love to see a breakdown of their sales numbers and see which speakers are selling in the greatest numbers and the profit on each overall for one year.
Car companies like Porsche release their numbers to the public, the number of each model they sold during a given time period. Those numbers could be very telling.
If you look right now, the Masterpiece line of electrostats I think are the only ML speakers on sale. Are sales down on those? Probably? Im going to guess that the majority of the reason is the high cost of those speakers.

 

[christopherf]

Some of our members are concerned that Martin Logan may pretty much abandon electrostats and concentrate mostly on their conventional traditional speaker lines. We have a good thread on that here. I would love to see a breakdown of their sales numbers and see which speakers are selling in the greatest numbers and the profit on each overall for one year.
Car companies like Porsche release their numbers to the public, the number of each model they sold during a given time period. Those numbers could be very telling.
If you look right now, the Masterpiece line of electrostats I think are the only ML speakers on sale. Are sales down on those? Probably? Im going to guess that the majority of the reason is the high cost of those speakers.

Hello Robert,

I am one of the members who posted extensively on this subject.
I contacted their sales director who said they must meet the needs of the market.
I replied if their ESL are not on display at shows the public will not be aware of them. I also wrote I no longer see ads for them in Stereophile and the Absolute Sound but I do see ads for woofers and tweeters. I was not in any way intending to be or sound argumentative. I bring up shows and ads because there was a manufacturer who was complaining that no one was buying his product but at the same time he did not invest in marketing; instead he blamed the public. People are interested when they see something in front of their eyes; out of sight out of mind.
After I replied the individual never wrote back; the no answer answer; in court there is a saying “no answer IS an answer.
FWIW Stereophile shows the 15 as highly recommended and a value. German Stereoplay gave the 13A a rating both for sound and value above 90% of box speakers many costing far more.
Is it so unreasonable to point out if they don’t support the product via appearances at shows and ads it will disappear from the consciousness of potential customers?
End of rant; needless to say I am frustrated by the initial reply and the non-responsiveness.

 

[Fidji99]

 

[Robert D]

Hello Robert,

I am one of the members who posted extensively on this subject.
I contacted their sales director who said they must meet the needs of the market.
I replied if their ESL are not on display at shows the public will not be aware of them. I also wrote I no longer see ads for them in Stereophile and the Absolute Sound but I do see ads for woofers and tweeters. I was not in any way intending to be or sound argumentative. I bring up shows and ads because there was a manufacturer who was complaining that no one was buying his product but at the same time he did not invest in marketing; instead he blamed the public. People are interested when they see something in front of their eyes; out of sight out of mind.
After I replied the individual never wrote back; the no answer answer; in court there is a saying “no answer IS an answer.
FWIW Stereophile shows the 15 as highly recommended and a value. German Stereoplay gave the 13A a rating both for sound and value above 90% of box speakers many costing far more.
Is it so unreasonable to point out if they don’t support the product via appearances at shows and ads it will disappear from the consciousness of potential customers?
End of rant; needless to say I am frustrated by the initial reply and the non-responsiveness.

Most of the public doesnt even know that electrostats exist. Its crazy to me. I guess ML figures word of mouth is the best form of advertisement, and makes the most cost effective way to sell. I did not learn about the speakers until I saw them at my local hi-fi store. I do think they should advertise more, at least online. Its crazy too that I hear they have not gone to some shows and that the rooms they set up are done half assed and dont really showcase the beautiful sound their speakers produce. Ive not been to any of the shows, but I have seen that many are just done in a small hotel room. It has to be tough to do, but it cant be impossible?

 

[jimbill]

I'm sure it's all about profit and not "core values".


https://www.cepro.com/news/paradigm_anthem_martinlogan_sold/

 

[perryz]

Hello Robert,

I am one of the members who posted extensively on this subject.
I contacted their sales director who said they must meet the needs of the market.
I replied if their ESL are not on display at shows the public will not be aware of them. I also wrote I no longer see ads for them in Stereophile and the Absolute Sound but I do see ads for woofers and tweeters. I was not in any way intending to be or sound argumentative. I bring up shows and ads because there was a manufacturer who was complaining that no one was buying his product but at the same time he did not invest in marketing; instead he blamed the public. People are interested when they see something in front of their eyes; out of sight out of mind.
After I replied the individual never wrote back; the no answer answer; in court there is a saying “no answer IS an answer.
FWIW Stereophile shows the 15 as highly recommended and a value. German Stereoplay gave the 13A a rating both for sound and value above 90% of box speakers many costing far more.
Is it so unreasonable to point out if they don’t support the product via appearances at shows and ads it will disappear from the consciousness of potential customers?
End of rant; needless to say I am frustrated by the initial reply and the non-responsiveness.

I can only say that I live in Australia and the stars seem to sell well here even though it I S a much smaller mkt than the USA .
I just bought a mac ma12000 and some othe gear from a retailer in Melbourne and they were so impressed with the 13as that they have now got pairs of classic 9 and 11s in the store.
They know that the speakers need careful set up but once done they are amazing.
Prior to me going I they only had the smaller esls and cone speakers by Martin logan
When I went in to listen to the max I heard it through the small Wilson’s and it was bass shy and really not impressive much better through big b&ws but spectacular on the 13as
In Melbourne there are several sellers of the bigger stats as there other in other major cities w.
I think they will keep selling stats but they as a corporation will also expand their other lines
Anyway have a set of 15s and the illusion on way
Happy listening

 

[christopherf]

I'm sure it's all about profit and not "core values".


https://www.cepro.com/news/paradigm_anthem_martinlogan_sold/

Yup, bottom line consciousness IS their core value. Try to contact either of these guy & see how far you get. Times have changed it’s just a middle finger to anyone who asks anything that is perceived as the least bit challenging.

The Bagbys note that it is a time of change in the industry, and based on their years of combined audio experience and innovative and entrepreneurial backgrounds, they believe they are well positioned to move these three brands into the future.

I can only say that I live in Australia and the stars seem to sell well here even though it I S a much smaller mkt than the USA .
I just bought a mac ma12000 and some othe gear from a retailer in Melbourne and they were so impressed with the 13as that they have now got pairs of classic 9 and 11s in the store.
They know that the speakers need careful set up but once done they are amazing.
Prior to me going I they only had the smaller esls and cone speakers by Martin logan
When I went in to listen to the max I heard it through the small Wilson’s and it was bass shy and really not impressive much better through big b&ws but spectacular on the 13as
In Melbourne there are several sellers of the bigger stats as there other in other major cities w.
I think they will keep selling stats but they as a corporation will also expand their other lines
Anyway have a set of 15s and the illusion on way
Happy listening

Enjoy reading this as you wait: MartinLogan Masterpiece Renaissance ESL 15A loudspeaker

 

[christopherf]

Yup, bottom line consciousness IS their core value. Try to contact either of these guy & see how far you get. Times have changed it’s just a middle finger to anyone who asks anything that is perceived as the least bit challenging.

The Bagbys note that it is a time of change in the industry, and based on their years of combined audio experience and innovative and entrepreneurial backgrounds, they believe they are well positioned to move these three brands into the future.

Enjoy reading this as you wait: MartinLogan Masterpiece Renaissance ESL 15A loudspeaker

I keep returning to the Renaissance ESL 15A's extraordinary in-room response, which is even better than the BeoLab 90's. As I said: "Wow!"—John Atkinson

 

[perryz]

Most of the public doesnt even know that electrostats exist. Its crazy to me. I guess ML figures word of mouth is the best form of advertisement, and makes the most cost effective way to sell. I did not learn about the speakers until I saw them at my local hi-fi store. I do think they should advertise more, at least online. Its crazy too that I hear they have not gone to some shows and that the rooms they set up are done half assed and dont really showcase the beautiful sound their speakers produce. Ive not been to any of the shows, but I have seen that many are just done in a small hotel room. It has to be tough to do, but it cant be impossible?

True but most have never known about them.
Companies must make money so it’s smart for them to move into home theatre with conventional drivers. But they also have the smaller entry level electro stats and their sales of electro stats have increased. The corporate side has slowed down the development cycle which is smart when you have good products like the masterpiece series. Think back to the quick cycles of 15 years ago when the summit was replaced quickly by the summit x and spire. This was not sensible business nor marketing.
They would need something special to replace the current line which performs really well.
A business that doesn’t focus on making money usually goes broke.

 

[Leporello]

I keep returning to the Renaissance ESL 15A's extraordinary in-room response, which is even better than the BeoLab 90's. As I said: "Wow!"—John Atkinson

Would this be the home theater John Atkinson, or the Stereophile one?

 

[Leporello]

I just came across this observation about our beloved ML speakers and electrostatics in general. It is a very good question and I have been thinking about the same thing. Is it because we are collectively of a certain age and cannot devote precious time to championing/advocating for this technology?

I seem to hear and read less about electrostatic speakers than I used to. I know they've always been a niche within another niche—audiophile speakers—but I remember the days when a vocal segment of passionate electrostatic devotees swore by the technology and refused to settle for the boxy colorations of your typical boxy speaker. Somehow, along the way, electrostatic speakers have become less visible, in the press as well as at audio shows.

That's a shame. Because whenever I do come across a pair of well-designed electrostatics and take a moment to listen to them, I'm reminded of how wonderful it is to hear so little distortion—10 to 100 times less than that produced by a traditional speaker. There's a sense of ease, purity, and transparency to the sound that few cones-in-a-box can match.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/martin-logan-planète-haute-fidélité-room

To be fair, cones or cones/ribbons in boxes have come a long way since the days when ESL's almost unconditionally ruled the "perfectionist" market. That being said, they have not lured me away.

 

[Robert D]

True but most have never known about them.
Companies must make money so it’s smart for them to move into home theatre with conventional drivers. But they also have the smaller entry level electro stats and their sales of electro stats have increased. The corporate side has slowed down the development cycle which is smart when you have good products like the masterpiece series. Think back to the quick cycles of 15 years ago when the summit was replaced quickly by the summit x and spire. This was not sensible business nor marketing.
They would need something special to replace the current line which performs really well.
A business that doesn’t focus on making money usually goes broke.

True. I would not expect them to focus now mainly on electrostats, and the longer cycle for models makes a lot of sense. If it ain't broke, why fix it?
It seems like the company is doing fine now. I can however understand why some may fear that they will abandon electrostats completely in the future. I personally don't think that will happen, but its not totally illogic.
Electrostat speakers in general are a niche product, thats certain. The base ML model is affordable, and the same price as their top traditional speaker. I would like to see sales numbers for those 2 models.
A lot of Porsche purists were angry when they first came out with a SUV. Now the Mecan and Cayenne sell more than the sports cars, and are a critical factor in keeping the company afloat. I see Martin Logan's traditional speakers as just that. Porsche won't ever abandon sports cars, and Martin Logan won't abandon electrostats.
It is strange to me however that so very few people are even aware that electrostat speakers exist, and they're been around since the 1950s. That's just weird to me. Is it because of higher cost and lower ownership? Very few people can afford a Ferrari, but almost everyone knows they exist.

 

[Leporello]

Most of the public doesnt even know that electrostats exist. Its crazy to me. I guess ML figures word of mouth is the best form of advertisement, and makes the most cost effective way to sell. I did not learn about the speakers until I saw them at my local hi-fi store. I do think they should advertise more, at least online. Its crazy too that I hear they have not gone to some shows and that the rooms they set up are done half assed and dont really showcase the beautiful sound their speakers produce. Ive not been to any of the shows, but I have seen that many are just done in a small hotel room. It has to be tough to do, but it cant be impossible?

Most of the New York City audio shows I have attended had a significant Martin Logan presence ESL, though that was all pre-covid. Today, my local Best Buy usually stocks at least a couple. I don't know what it's like in other parts of the world.

 

[Robert D]

Most of the New York City audio shows I have attended had a significant Martin Logan presence ESL, though that was all pre-covid. Today, my local Best Buy usually stocks at least a couple. I don't know what it's like in other parts of the world.

Our Best Buy has too, as well as my local hi-fi store.
Were the systems at the NYC shows set up well and sound good? I've seen some post on here about some shows having the sound system set up poorly.

 

[rpokuls]

Most of the New York City audio shows I have attended had a significant Martin Logan presence ESL, though that was all pre-covid. Today, my local Best Buy usually stocks at least a couple. I don't know what it's like in other parts of the world.

Is that the Best Buy at the Crossgates Mall? I live in Syracuse and had to drive there to audition my current 13a's !

 

[Robert D]

Used to be that the Best buy had to be classified as a"Magnolia" store.

 

[christopherf]

Would this be the home theater John Atkinson, or the Stereophile one?

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