The law of diminishing return.

[Steevray]

Hi everyone. Hope you had a great weekend.
My question. When do you just throw in the towel trying to Refurbish Old Martin Logan speakers. In particular I am asking about the Monolith3 with the active crossover. Appearance 9 out of 10. Panels still sound nice. Planned on replacing woofers with one’s recommended by other ML members.
One of the power plates stopped working. I have sent into George Meyer for repair and possibly replace capacitors. I already have 5,000 Into them. I’m unclear after repair, what I could reasonably expect to sell them for. Then of course what ML speakers in the 6,500 hundred range new or what used speaker would you recommend?
Thanks in advance.

 

[JonFo]

Tough choice, but pretty much everything on the Monolith is fixable, it just takes time and some coin. Of course, that's not for everyone, and in your case, it sounds like you are ready for something more plug-and-play.

As for market value, that's a tough one, especially since they have 22 year-old panels. A purchaser would need to factor in the cost of a re-panel. On that set, the most valuable element is the Exos active crossover, as those are quite rare.

As for replacing with new or used, here are my suggestions:

With the 20% of sale, the Impression 11A is the first of the ARC-ready Masterpiece series and a good value.
Or a member has a nice used set for sale for $5K: Impression 11A - Piano Black

Used, lots of options in Gen2 series units, and some good deals to be found these days, see the Montis for $4,500 Shawn just listed in our classifieds. Occasionally we see a Summit for $6,500 or less.
Unmodified Gen1 models are now mostly for people willing to invest some effort into refurbishing them, but the ROI once you factor in panel replacement cost is not looking good.
The Monolith is the one exception, as it's the lowest-cost way to get a massive-sized panel.

 

[ttocs]

It comes down to how much you love the sound when they're in tip top shape.

Little story. I had JBL L-110 speakers for 32 years. They needed to be re-coned about every ten years. The first time, the re-cone cost more than 2/3 of the original price of the speakers. The second time it cost about half what the speakers cost new. They had pots on the midrange and tweeter for balancing, and these needed regular maintenance. I loved those speakers for 30 years, but knew that when the next woofer re-cone was needed, I was looking for a change. It was at this time that I started looking for the next speaker that would take me to the grave. It didn't, but it got me on the path to what I now have, and this is the final pair of speakers.

Moral of the story: It doesn't matter what they can be sold for, it matters how much you love the sound. I spent $800 for just two re-cones for speakers that cost $700 new. For me, it was worth every penny and I would do it again to get the same sonic experience.

 

[Brad225]

I personally don't believe you will find the same sound from a smaller panel as others have said. Even the newer speakers.
You don't say how long you have had them so we don't know how attached you are with them and their sound.
All you can do is listen to other models and decide on your sound.

As for the law of diminishing returns. When you wife or girlfriend doesn't smile back at you any more, you may have hit the point of diminishing returns with your investment in audio.

 

[zigman]

As for the law of diminishing returns. When you wife or girlfriend doesn't smile back at you any more, you may have hit the point of diminishing returns with your investment in audio.

Haha, well said! I would also add, when you ask your significant other, "Wow, did you just hear the difference?" and the response is a clear "No, not at all. How much more did you just spend??"

I would try to demo first to hear the difference between the newer designed narrower panel and the wider larger Monolith panels (in your price range). I imagine technology enhancement may offset a bit of the size differences, but range, etc. will be different.

 

[spkrdctr]

I will chime in here. You are talking about 20 year old speakers from what I can figure out. That is my personal absolute point where I say it is time to buy new if there is any way you can afford it. I used to repair home audio and I can tell you with absolute certainty that ANY 20 year old system that has capacitors in it (Amps and crossovers) need all new caps at this point. Sure there is always that 2% that don't need them but really just figure they all need them all replaced. Not just a few caps. All of them. Also the driver technology and speaker design tools have jumped from the old days of just hoping something sounded good to now being able to design product with huge performance gains. There is on axis sound, off axis sound, smooth sound charts versus old peaky charts with huge dips and rises, even in very expensive speakers. So, if you can afford it, go new even if you buy a speaker pair slightly smaller than the old speakers. I think you will greatly rewarded.

 

[Steevray]

Hello,

I just want to take the time to thank everyone for posting and reply. My big monoliths sound pretty nice still. I don’t know how much a. panel refresh might cost. Does anyone out there have an idea? Thanks

 

[Gordon Gray]

LOTS

 

[Steevray]

Lots
Meaning > 3000.00

 

[Robert D]

Martin Logan quoted me about $2800 for new Prodigy panels.

I am getting mine refurbished for $650. Will see how that goes in a month or so.

 

[Steevray]

I didn't know there was anyone out there doing refurbishing. I'm in California and shipping can get you when you're dealing with big panels like this. Are there several people that refurbish the panels or is this one in particular the best that you know about? Thanks

 

[Robert D]

I didn't know there was anyone out there doing refurbishing. I'm in California and shipping can get you when you're dealing with big panels like this. Are there several people that refurbish the panels or is this one in particular the best that you know about? Thanks

This is who I discovered on here.

http://www.eslrepair.com/
There are others, but its a rare breed these days!

 

[Brad225]

I believe a number of members over time have used Russ at ELS Repair with very good results.
If I needed this service I would not hesitate using him.

 

[Robert D]

I believe a number of members over time have used Russ at ELS Repair with very good results.
If I needed this service I would not hesitate using him.

I'm very impressed with Russ. He's been working with electrostats for a long time and knows his stuff. People from all over the world send their panels to him. My panels are with him now.

 

[MHzTweaker]

Martin Logan quoted me about $2800 for new Prodigy panels.

I am getting mine refurbished for $650. Will see how that goes in a month or so.

$2800??? Bloody hell!!
I was going to buy a set of panels but last I heard they were around $2k
I may have to dump Martin Logan altogether.

To the OP. I had a set of Monolith II speakers I bought in like '88.
Honestly I would sell them. It is my understanding the older units power supplies don't go into sleep mode like modern Logans do. Then there is the probability of both your crossover and power supply needing maintenance such as fresh capacitors. If you can perform this work yourself, that might be different but at ML parts replacement costs, forget that. I have a spare set of NOS power supplies for my Prodigies somewhere just in case.

 

[Robert D]

$2800??? Bloody hell!!
I was going to buy a set of panels but last I heard they were around $2k
I may have to dump Martin Logan altogether.

To the OP. I had a set of Monolith II speakers I bought in like '88.
Honestly I would sell them. It is my understanding the older units power supplies don't go into sleep mode like modern Logans do. Then there is the probability of both your crossover and power supply needing maintenance such as fresh capacitors. If you can perform this work yourself, that might be different but at ML parts replacement costs, forget that. I have a spare set of NOS power supplies for my Prodigies somewhere just in case.

I agree with what you say. Thats why I went ahead and had the panels refurbished. Shelling out nearly $3000 for an old set of speakers that might have other parts going bad isnt a wise decision unless you can do that service on your own. Even then, arent the parts hard to find and expensive? I just hope that my panels sound great when I get them back. I have good confidence in Russ.

 

[Steevray]

Very nice. I have the capacity to desolder and replace caps.
I am by no means an EE.That said , it inspires me to send off my panels to ESL. Does he use the more up to date mylar coating?
In my view, putting a layer of GR Reseach
norez and recapping, and a new woofer would compete with anything ML has to offer in the 15,000.00 price point. Huge panel = fantastic true to life (close?)sound.
True newer tech is better than old , but 10,000.00 or so better?

 

[Robert D]

Russ has his own coating that he uses. He cleans off the old and then applies his own.