The DON / redux
- Thread starter Gordon Gray
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It's not hard because he makes things up on the fly all the time. Other people get caught in a lie or a lie of omission. Trump just flat out lies whenever his lips are moving. There is no remote comparison between him an any president in history.
He lies blatantly and about everything constantly making things up to try to paint him as our savior or the biggest, best or most anything.
Is he a wind bag, yes.
With the Clintons and the Obama administration lying for over a year about the Trump dossier and his connection to Russia, they are as corrupt as anyone that has ever existed.
They have admitted to having paid for Fusion GPS to create the dossier now.
The Clinton foundation received $145,000,000,00, that is $145 MILLION from a Russian uranium company that Putin took over for the use of the Russian government.
If you go back through the thread when i brought that up YOU said it could never happen.
The gag order that Obama put on the FBI agent that was undercover in 2009 to find out what was going on with the Russians and corruption has been lifted.
It is the Clintons and the Obama government that are behind connections with the Russian government. This is text book Democrat to accuse people of crimes and miss deeds that they themselves have perpetrated.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Hi Brad,
Maybe I'm missing something so please tell me why the vast majority of Republicans in Washington (including the Trump AG office) supported the appointment of the Special Prosecutor to look into Trump campaign's connections with the Russians if Clinton / Obama are "behind connections with the Russian government"?
I'm confused.
Best,
Gordon
You have Mullers in charge of the investigation. He is as involved in this latest problem for the Democrats as anyone in the upper levels on the FBI is.
The majority of Republicans and most all Democrats don't want Trump around because he is not in favor of the way they are use to doing business. They still can't believe that a "No One " from outside of politics could be elected.
A majority of voters have had enough with the status quo and want major change. It is yet to be seen what that will be.
If you can possibly find the time, I highly recommend watching this video.
https://www.ted.com/talks/zeynep_tufekci_we_re_building_a_dystopia_just_to_make_people_click_on_ads
We are all continually being manipulated and most don't realize it.
This is the culmination of psychological research, massive data mining of everything we do and say and AI algorithms that learn how to target people with data and then use psychology to get a desired behavior.
This country has been completely categorized at a very granular level by big data so that people can be controlled almost individually.
We like to think we are intelligent and rational, but we are fooling ourselves. We all have hot topics that generate an extreme emotional response. If we have the right information fed to us that pushes our buttons, we change our behavior. No one is immune.
What's scary is that we all tend to believe that we are smarter than that or somehow immune and it is the other guy who is crazy for believing what they believe.
I made a comment a while ago that we are fooling ourselves if we think we are in control. It's all an illusion. All we do is slap a donkey or an elephant bumper sticker on the bus but we are never in the driver's seat.
https://www.ted.com/talks/zeynep_tufekci_we_re_building_a_dystopia_just_to_make_people_click_on_ads
We are all continually being manipulated and most don't realize it.
This is the culmination of psychological research, massive data mining of everything we do and say and AI algorithms that learn how to target people with data and then use psychology to get a desired behavior.
This country has been completely categorized at a very granular level by big data so that people can be controlled almost individually.
We like to think we are intelligent and rational, but we are fooling ourselves. We all have hot topics that generate an extreme emotional response. If we have the right information fed to us that pushes our buttons, we change our behavior. No one is immune.
What's scary is that we all tend to believe that we are smarter than that or somehow immune and it is the other guy who is crazy for believing what they believe.
I made a comment a while ago that we are fooling ourselves if we think we are in control. It's all an illusion. All we do is slap a donkey or an elephant bumper sticker on the bus but we are never in the driver's seat.
I’m afraid you are going to be very disappointed, Brad. These latest “problems for the Democrats” are nothing more than a convenient distraction drummed up by republicans to try to take focus off the Mueller investigation. You will see lots of accusations, gnashing of teeth, etc., and in the end nothing will come of it. But it will have served its purpose to stir up the base and move the focus from Trump’s failures and misdeeds back to Clinton and Obama. Your posts show that this little stunt is working just as intended.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Brad,
If you mean the actual popular presidential vote count, your statement is false. If you believe there were millions of fraudulent votes that were cast, that may be true. However, there is no current evidence to support that claim.
I agree with you that we have not seen what will be but if it reflects what 46 promised during the election, I'm afraid, as witnessed by the last nine months or so, we will have a long wait.
Best,
Gordon
Nice Mark. I agree completely and have been referring to this as the 'mind f**k' of America. And this goes both ways. I believe the news agencies to be the largest contributor of this effect.
The fragmentation of the news has definitely been a contributing factor to the fragmentation of society and creation of bubbles of people and I would say it was the leading issue until the last 3-4 years.
Sadly biased news which is very bad in its own right pales in comparison to targeted streams of information.
It's like they have your DNA and know how to create a virus specifically designed for you then feed you this virus incrementally so that you don't even notice it. Over time it changes you the way they want you to change.
This is what people don't get. It's almost subliminal. You see something that plants a seed that you think you ignore. Then you see something else that reinforces the idea. Over time your opinion changes and you didn't even realize you were being manipulated.
The huge difference between this and the news is that you and only a small number of people very similar to you see the same message. Other people get completely different messages that hit their particular hot buttons. So one group of people can be encouraged to vote while another is fed information to think voting is pointless. Someone very prejudiced receives messages that feed off of that. Someone who feels strongly about a given hot button item is fed information about their particular button of choice.
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Yes. I get it completely. I was in Costa Rica about ten years ago and there were some girls there that worked for google in the ad department. I asked 'why would I want to advertise on google... I ignore all those ads'. Their response basically discussed the immediate measureables , tweakability based on success, ability to target certain demographics. What you are talking about here is really the same thing except it isn't about selling a product, it's about selling an agenda, ideology etc...
Exactly.
If you watched the video, you saw where FB found that simply asking you to vote vs. asking you to vote and showing thumbnails of your friends who voted today had a dramatic impact on who voted. FB's experiments showed statistically that they could influence the number of people who voted by hundreds of thousands with that simple difference in content. But that is just the tip of the iceberg compared to what is going on.
Now that you can slice and dice the demographics groups, it is easy to send targeted information to the people you want to vote vs. people you don't want to vote and impact an election. By why stop there when they can target specific groups of people with very specifically targeted topics to change their opinions.
The hard part is that we each will tend to believe that its everyone else is affected but not ourselves. Not only that but we will blame the "other side" for doing this and see a problem with that, but will tend to not care if the same practices are being used by "our side". We will think that is just fighting fire with fire. At some point this turns into a civil war.
The country is becoming deeply divided because of this manipulation when people would tend to get along and gravitate towards a common set of values otherwise.
I don't imagine many here will have issues with Manafort , and Tony Podesta being the first to take a hit. Manafort's eastern block connections to say nothing of the tax evasion issues, he should be enough to put him away for quite a while.
I wouldn't say it is out of the realm of possibilities but, do any of you truly think The Donald would pardon him?
If he does, my guess is he may as well reserve the moving van to go back to the Towers.
I wouldn't say it is out of the realm of possibilities but, do any of you truly think The Donald would pardon him?
If he does, my guess is he may as well reserve the moving van to go back to the Towers.
No way does he pardon anyone in my opinion.... unless it is a relative....
... He has all ready come out stating 'this is way before the campaign'.... so he is all ready trying to distance himself from it....But, what amazes me... and it doesn't matter what 'big chief' it is..... whether its political.... whether its white collar crime... The guy in charge is always 'clueless' when the problem occurs.... Lying has become an art in this country.... whether its your resume, taking credit for things you didn't do at the office, figuring out how to work the legal system, figuring out how to work the welfare system, figuring out how to work the tax system, figuring out how to work the electoral process..... All is entrenched in deceit ... and we wonder why our so-called leaders on either side are the BEST of the BEST at it??? Then we whine and moan when they start doing it.... talk about actually meeting expectations!!!
Excellent post, timm. I don’t think people realize how endemic and widespread corruption is within our own country. And it goes from the top, all the way down. From the highest federal officials, to the mayors of the tiniest towns. From politicians, to law enforcement, to private corporations and individuals. It’s everywhere in all facets of our society.
Look no further than the recent arrest of Insys Therapeutics’ founder and CEO for bribing doctors to over-prescribe his fentanyl-based drug for non-approved uses. This same guy gave $500,000 to the “No” campaign that helped defeat Arizona’s Cannabis legalization law. In my own state, the Governor resigned in disgrace, and the Speaker of the House was convicted and imprisoned for ethics violations (under stricter ethics laws that he pushed through himself, no less).
Corruption in both the public and private sector in our country seems out of control. And I’m not sure a lot of people realize just how bad it is getting and how much they are affected by it.
Look no further than the recent arrest of Insys Therapeutics’ founder and CEO for bribing doctors to over-prescribe his fentanyl-based drug for non-approved uses. This same guy gave $500,000 to the “No” campaign that helped defeat Arizona’s Cannabis legalization law. In my own state, the Governor resigned in disgrace, and the Speaker of the House was convicted and imprisoned for ethics violations (under stricter ethics laws that he pushed through himself, no less).
Corruption in both the public and private sector in our country seems out of control. And I’m not sure a lot of people realize just how bad it is getting and how much they are affected by it.
The indictments returned today by Mueller could be a bombshell, showing the feds have actual evidence of collusion with Russia reaching the highest levels of the campaign. I’m not even talking about the arrests of Manafort and his protege. I’m talking about the announcement of the previously secret arrest and guilty plea of Papadopolous. The indictment contains a lot of potentially damning information. Interestingly, the FBI interview where Papadopolous lied about his Russian contacts occurred on January 27th, which just so happens to be the same day Trump called Comey, invited him to dinner, and asked for a pledge of loyalty. Coincidence?
Also, in the footnotes of the indictment, there is a mention of an email from one high-ranking campaign official to the campaign supervisor, in which he forwarded Papadopolous’ email about Russian contacts and stated that someone “low-level” would have to go to Russia “so as not to send any signal.” The fact that Papadopolous has already plead guilty is a sure indication that he has turned State’s witness and is working for Mueller now. Given the ramp up in rhetoric from Trump about Hillary and screaming on Twitter “NO COLLUSION!”, I think it’s obvious Trump is concerned about this development. We could very well be witnessing in real time the bombshell moment that eventually brings about the end of his presidency.
Edit: another tidbit...
The report the FBI released for Papadopolous’ confession shows emails of him in direct communication with the Russians, having knowledge of the DNCs stolen emails months before the public ever knew and setting up meetings with the Russians to obtain those stolen documents on behalf of the Trump campaign, then lying about all of it to the FBI. This guy is the lynchpin that ties everything together. And he is cooperating with Mueller. Given the substantial and easily provable charges levied against Manafort and Gates, it is obvious Mueller’s team is applying serious leverage to try to flip them as well. Why would they want to flip Manafort? Who is higher up the chain than the campaign manager, that you would possibly hope to nab? One man: Donald Trump.
Also, in the footnotes of the indictment, there is a mention of an email from one high-ranking campaign official to the campaign supervisor, in which he forwarded Papadopolous’ email about Russian contacts and stated that someone “low-level” would have to go to Russia “so as not to send any signal.” The fact that Papadopolous has already plead guilty is a sure indication that he has turned State’s witness and is working for Mueller now. Given the ramp up in rhetoric from Trump about Hillary and screaming on Twitter “NO COLLUSION!”, I think it’s obvious Trump is concerned about this development. We could very well be witnessing in real time the bombshell moment that eventually brings about the end of his presidency.
Edit: another tidbit...
The report the FBI released for Papadopolous’ confession shows emails of him in direct communication with the Russians, having knowledge of the DNCs stolen emails months before the public ever knew and setting up meetings with the Russians to obtain those stolen documents on behalf of the Trump campaign, then lying about all of it to the FBI. This guy is the lynchpin that ties everything together. And he is cooperating with Mueller. Given the substantial and easily provable charges levied against Manafort and Gates, it is obvious Mueller’s team is applying serious leverage to try to flip them as well. Why would they want to flip Manafort? Who is higher up the chain than the campaign manager, that you would possibly hope to nab? One man: Donald Trump.
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I agree with both of you. Unless we all push for ANY person breaking the law to be held responsible the citizens of this country have no chance of a future of choice. If we could start with honest people representing us it would be much easier to create a system we could all exist with without always trying to cut the legs out from under the other person.
On another note. Rich could you think about this and let us know your thoughts, or anyone else for that matter.
If I understand the process so far. The information that started the Trump investigation was based on the FISA warrant wire tapping of the phones in T T.
Wasn't the warrant agreed to based on the information in the dossier from the "Russians" based on what we knew at the time.
Now that the DNC and Clinton election committee have admitted they hired Fusion GPS to do "Opposition Research" and that appears fictional, would that not potentially make the information obtained with the FISA warrant inadmissible?
On another note. Rich could you think about this and let us know your thoughts, or anyone else for that matter.
If I understand the process so far. The information that started the Trump investigation was based on the FISA warrant wire tapping of the phones in T T.
Wasn't the warrant agreed to based on the information in the dossier from the "Russians" based on what we knew at the time.
Now that the DNC and Clinton election committee have admitted they hired Fusion GPS to do "Opposition Research" and that appears fictional, would that not potentially make the information obtained with the FISA warrant inadmissible?
Brad, it’s really complex and hard to simplify. The bottom line is that we probably don’t have enough information to make any conclusions regarding potential admissibility of evidence. We don’t know the full underlying basis for the FISA warrants. The info from the dossier may have been used, but there may have been much more credible information to support it that hasn’t been reported. We just don’t know yet.
Also, you need to realize that it has been reported that much of the information contained in the dossier has, in fact, been independently verified as factual by the F.B.I. I am not aware that any of it has been proven false . . . Only that the most salacious information has not been verified one way or the other. If this is true, it would be disingenuous to dismiss the whole thing as fictional.
Also, there is a report out that Carter Page has been under FISA surveillance not just since last summer, but actually since 2014. So again, we just don’t know what information they had that led them to this investigation. Likewise, Manafort had been under investigation since 2014 for his work in Ukraine, and his FISA warrant was renewed last summer as well. Until we learn the full bases for these new warrants, you can’t really speculate on their validity or on evidence admissibility.
Ultimately, my take on the whole thing is that if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and surrounds itself with ducks, chances are it is probably a duck. Let’s face it. Trump had more campaign staff and advisors with deep ties to Russia than any campaign ever. His various staff and kin had meetings with Russian contacts multiple times, which they repeatedly failed to disclose until called out on it. They then couldn’t remember details and downplayed the significance of those meetings. The Russians hacked the DNC and released batches of emails, along with implementing a vast troll farm social media disinformation campaign, and it was all done with the clear intention of helping Trump win. Putin does nothing without good reason. Then notice how Trump acted in regards to Putin, both during the campaign and after. And how he treated NATO allies. It was behavior that was inapposite to how virtually any other republican or democrat would have acted and it was all in Putin’s favor. Then the firing of Comey, the rage at Sessions for recusing himself, and now his attempts to disparage Mueller, call the investigation a witch hunt, and try to turn the focus back on Hillary and Obama. I’m not sure I have ever seen someone act so guilty of a crime. Reminiscent of Nixon’s famous “I am not a crook!” (Spoiler - he was a crook). If you take all the information presented so far at face value, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what went on here, and that it went all the way to the top. The only question is whether Mueller can gather sufficient evidence to prove it. Personally, I don’t doubt his ability to do so. But it will still take time to play out. Monday was just the first salvo and, as McCain noted, many more shoes will drop.
I have to add one more observation about Trump, unrelated to everything else. Have we ever had a President in history who passes the buck as much as he does? If something goes wrong on the battlefield, he blames his generals. Something goes wrong in the campaign, he blames the staffers, then fires them and distances himself from them. If he lies or handles something poorly, he blames the media for reporting it. He almost never accepts responsibility for anything. Even when he admits he was wrong, he does so in the most weasel-ly way possible. After years of insisting that Obama was born in Kenya, and after mounting public pressure to address it during the campaign, he got up and glibly stated Obama was born in America. End of story. Move on. No apology to Obama or to Americans for his years of using his bully pulpit to proselytize this racist falsehood and slander the sitting president. He NEVER accepts personal responsibility for his own actions or for those of his underlings. Consider this aspect of his personality when you hear him twitter-screaming that “there was NO COLLUSION!” Hard to trust the words of someone who has never admitted wrong-doing in his life, refuses to accept ultimate responsibility for anything, and literally shows no remorse for any of his actions.
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