System #400 (CLS)

[easypete]

1. Member Name: Erik

2. Location: Douglasville, GA

3. ML Model(s): CLS

4. Year Purchased: 2009

5. Mods/Changes: No Mods. Planning on replacing wire between binding post and circuit board. Have wire, need time.

6. Associated Electronics:
- Kinergetic SW-800
- Ayre V5xe (CLSs)
- NAD C375BEE (pre-amp and amp for Subs)
- Denon DVD-5910ci (SACD playback)
- Rega P3 w/ Dynavector 10x5 cartridge
- Dynavector P-75mkII phono pre
- Mac Mini (CD and DVD-A playback - ripped as Apple Lossless or FLAC)
- Pure Music (upsampling and hi-res playback for Mac Mini)
- M-Audio Profire 610 - DAC for Mac Mini
- dbx DriveRack PA+ for crossover (120 Hz w/ 18dB/octave Butterworth) and AutoQ
- Audioquest Diamondback and King Cobra interconnects
- Audioquest Chocolate HDMI cables
- Audioquest Gibraltars (CLS)
- DH Labs Q-10 (Kinergetics)
- VPI HW-16.5 record cleaner

7. Comments and/or stories about your Martin Logan experience:

It started simple enough. I told my boss that I was considering getting some Bose speakers (back in 1993). It happened to be a day or two before a Martin Logan factory tour (at the time, I was working in Overland Park, KS). We did the factory tour. I saw a whole bunch of speakers in different stages of fabrication. Most of them were CLSs or Monolith IIIs. Didn't get to hear them, but in the lobby, they had a set of Aerius's hooked up to an old reciever w/ a portable CD player, playing Eagles Hotel California. While the rest of the group was in the R&D room looking at experiments with active subs... I was stuck there, listening to those speakers. It changed me.

It wasn't until 1995 that I was able to start putting some money into audio. I started with Magnepan MMGs. I built a complete home theater, based on Magnepans (1.7 fronts, 1.6 rears, MMG rear-rears, CC1 center channel, REL Stadium III subs, Citation amps, Outlaw 990 pre/pro, and Audioquest wires and interconnects).

After the home theater was complete, it was back to my original desires... the CLSs. A local dealer had told me he had purchased some used CLSs and had them at home. I worked on him for 2 years before he agreed to sell them to me. I got them, but they had some problems. With the help of this forum, I was able to determine that the mylar was loose. I received guidance from Martin Logan on heat treating, but was probably too scared to complete the job. I got the Kinergetic SW800 to take the low frequency burden off the CLSs, but the x-over that came with it did not work. I used a dbx DriveRack that I had laying around as a stop-gap (I hate the added AD/DA conversions, but with the added AutoQ and phase correction... I'm loving it).

I think I'm getting real close to where I want to be. I am getting ready to order new panels. When I do that, I'll replace the internal wires.

 

[twich54]

Erik, looking good.....system #400 posted !!

 

[churchill]

Welcome Erik! Thanks for posting your nice system!

 

[Krazikiwi]

Looks great Erik,

Tell us more about FLAC playback with Pure Music which I guess is plugged into iTunes. Also, did you put in more memory in the Mac mini for playing out of cache?

Like the separates approach on the Home Theatre too. Got any pics of it?

Fjeff

 

[repman]

Very nice system Erik, Looks like a mini statement

 

[Necrosuit]

Awesome! very very nice. Welcome

 

[easypete]

FLAC playback

Looks great Erik,

Tell us more about FLAC playback with Pure Music which I guess is plugged into iTunes. Also, did you put in more memory in the Mac mini for playing out of cache?

Like the separates approach on the Home Theatre too. Got any pics of it?

Fjeff

Pure Music is just a plug-in that attaches itself to iTunes. It allows for features like upsampling (hardware dependent up to 384/64), playing from memory, inverting polarity, and crossovers (64 bit w/ phase correction). It also allows for FLAC playback, which is important for anything more than redbook. All the 96/24s and 192/24s I have now are all in FLAC (either from ripping from DVD-As, or purchases from HD Tracks). Due to some noise issues in the most recent version, I have everything disabled, except for memory playback and upsampling.

I was able to rip my DVD-A collection (about 60 discs) with DVD Audio Extractor. It did a great job for the 2-channel mixes, but didn't do so well with the DVD-As that had only 6 channel mixes. I will have to re-rip the 6-channel mixes. I found a program that is supposed to do a good job converting 6 to 2.

I've only been playing with the Mac Mini for about 2 months now I never thought I would see a computer in my system... seemed like taboo to me before, but now, it's my source about 80% of the time. The lossless playbacks of CDs upsampled with Pure Music sound so much better than the CD playback through the Denon 5910. It also has the uber convenience of using the remote function on our iPads, iPhones, and iPod Touches. During parties, anyone with an iPhone, iPad, or iPod Touch that comes over can take control of the music, choosing and voting on what songs are played in what order.

As far as the Mac Mini, I've maxed out the memory to 8 GB.

For the Home Theater, I have an older picture. The recent changes (this year) have been moving the 1.6s (shown in front) to the rears, adding the 1.7s up front, moving the Ayre amp, Denon 5910, and Rega P3 upstairs, and adding another Citation 7.1 in place of the Ayre. The Yamaha Sub to the right of the rack is for center channel only. The REL subs are behind the main speakers. Screen is 97" diag with the poor, neglected LaserDisc player on the floor at the bottom right of the picture.

 

[Krazikiwi]

Thanks for the detail Erik,

I am working on using an iMac with Pure Music. Still looking at FireWire DACs (effectively replaced by Thunderbolt now) and using an external USB hard drive although I really would rather everything was solid state. Got any thoughts on FireWire vs USB on either end of the equation?

Plenty of "gotchas" along the way I think but worth it longer term for hi Res liquid music. Like you, using an iPad to drive it all.

What improvements did the 1.7s bring over the 1.6s? Still miss my Maggies! Have you thought about putting all your video material onto a Mac as ISO files?

Fjeff

 

[easypete]

DACs

Thanks for the detail Erik,

I am working on using an iMac with Pure Music. Still looking at FireWire DACs (effectively replaced by Thunderbolt now) and using an external USB hard drive although I really would rather everything was solid state. Got any thoughts on FireWire vs USB on either end of the equation?

Plenty of "gotchas" along the way I think but worth it longer term for hi Res liquid music. Like you, using an iPad to drive it all.

What improvements did the 1.7s bring over the 1.6s? Still miss my Maggies! Have you thought about putting all your video material onto a Mac as ISO files?

Fjeff

I'm still going through the learning curve on DACs right now. The one thing I think I've figured out is not to use the same bus for storage as you do for routing audio. I would not use USB for both the DAC and the hard drive. Right now, I'm using a 2TB external hard drive through the USB. I'm using the M-Audio Profire 610... because it was handy (on a shelf in my studio) and it didn't use USB. I think the big trend right now is using asynchronous USB connection to DACs. If I go this route, I'm moving my hard drive to the Firewire port.

For me, I'm thinking about getting the Schiit Bitfrost DAC when it comes out and using the Toslink input. There are some people that say you can't get 96/24 through a fiberoptic cable, but there are a few manufacturers of DACs doing this successfully. The Schiit has an option for asynchronous input (extra $100). If the optical connection doesn't work, I'll send it back for the upgrade.

This will limit me to 96/24. Right now, I can do 192/24 with the M-Audio. I'm kinda torn right now. I can't really utilize the full 192kHz right now, as I'm using the dbx as a crossover (samples at 96kHz), so I won't lose any quality from a diminished sampling rate (until I replace the dbx). The chipset in the Schiit should be far superior to the chipset in the M-Audio, so it should be a big SQ boost. Also, the M-Audio just has 1/4" outputs, so I have to run my Diamondbacks with a 1/4" to RCA converter.

The 1.7s are impressive. I'm very happy with them. Actually, my wife and I argue about what sounds better, the 1.7s or the CLSs with the Kinergetics. We're very happy with them. First speaker I ever purchased without listening to them. We were on the first production run when they were announced. The super-tweeter was very harsh for the first 100 hours of break-in, but they are amazing now.

I'm just now starting to think about video. I haven't done much research on this yet. I don't think video is that important to be on demand. i can listen to the same song 100 times over, but I'm hard pressed to watch a movie more than once.

 

[Krazikiwi]

Standards? What standards?!

Hi Erik,

You must have read my mind on using separate buses for input and output. Going in is not so bad timing wise because one wants to run the assembled file out of cache but maintaining a steady bitstream to a DAC with full guarantee of byte order and content is way harder. Thankfully Apple's FireWire adheres to the SCSI3 standard along with Sun's FC-AL, IBM's SSA and DEC's DSSI (Fast Wide Differential parallel SCSI), they all use the same commands, status bytes etc which are rock solid for data transfer behind storage subsystems. Funny enough, they are all going (or have gone) EOL as newer protocols emerge (like Thunderbolt, SAS v2).

But if the SCSI3 standard has been good enough for the storage industry for the last decade, it is good enough for our modest but hi end requirements. Toslink, despite its cheap interface is quite capable of high transfer rates but has been cut out of the equation by vendors wishing to keep hi res audio streams away from hackers. HDMI protocol is the closest we have come but it is of course encrypted.

Part of me wants to hang back and wait for copper Thunderbolt to move over for fibre Thunderbolt and the DACs that will eventually arise to support it (hopefully), along with the promise of creating grids of Mac minis linked together by this interface but I digress.

Let me know how the Schiit goes on Toslink Erik.

Meanwhile, I will wait for Weiss FireWire DACs to drop in price second hand. I have learnt my depreciation lesson last time around with Red Book DAC values. USB as a streaming protocol doesn't do it for me personally.

Thank you again for sharing your experience thus far Erik.

Fjeff

 

[Bernard]

I'm just now starting to think about video. I haven't done much research on this yet. I don't think video is that important to be on demand. i can listen to the same song 100 times over, but I'm hard pressed to watch a movie more than once.

In "Get Better Sound" you should read Jim Smith's comments on video, i.e with most of his customers the novely of HT faded after a couple of years, and was used rarely after that.

 

[RedRaider]

Nice setup brother