I am currently running my restored sl3s with a sunfire cinema grand. Part of me is wanting to move toward a more modern amp and I’ve always loved Emotiva gear. I called them and they said that the xpa-2 would match up well (I do not want to biamp). I am unsure how old the sunfire is but is likely in the 15-25 year old range. It is a massive amp that will need a lot of capacitors changed soon. This will be costly and time consuming. My plan is to sell my sunfire and use the money to purchase the xpa-2. Do you think I will regret this decision? Any input would be much appreciated!
Sunfire cinema grand vs Emotiva xpa-2 gen 3 question
- Thread starter ck102020
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I use one of these on my ML center channel speaker and recommend it. Its out of stock now because they sell like hot cakes. If I were you, I'd wait for those to get back in stock. If you call them, they may be able to get you on a wait list or at least tell you when they will be in. Its a good monoblock, and doesn't take up much space!
https://emotiva.com/products/hc-1
https://emotiva.com/products/hc-1
That was another option but I wanted to keep my setup to 1 amp. Emotiva said the xpa is capable of the job. It’s a cheaper alternative as well, I am in college so I need to be as cost effective as possible.
I have the XPA-2 Gen 2 which is a more conventional A/B amp and it is doing a great job for me. I have no personal experience with the Gen 3, but I can say that the Gen 2 is very neutral and sounds great with my Ethos.
The Gen 2 has marginally more power than the Gen 3 going into a 4ohm load. 515W vs. 490W and I also understood that the XPA-2 Gen 3 didn't handle very low impedances quite as well. So a set of ML Montis that go as low as 0.8 ohm would probably not be a good match for the Gen 3. There had been a few complaints against the Gen 3 from ML owners. These complaints didn't exist for the Gen 2. However the impedance of your SL3s don't appear to drop below 2ohms so you should be safe. It might hit 1.8ohms at about 15kHz, but the other two dips are above 3ohms.
The Gen 2 has marginally more power than the Gen 3 going into a 4ohm load. 515W vs. 490W and I also understood that the XPA-2 Gen 3 didn't handle very low impedances quite as well. So a set of ML Montis that go as low as 0.8 ohm would probably not be a good match for the Gen 3. There had been a few complaints against the Gen 3 from ML owners. These complaints didn't exist for the Gen 2. However the impedance of your SL3s don't appear to drop below 2ohms so you should be safe. It might hit 1.8ohms at about 15kHz, but the other two dips are above 3ohms.
Yeah, I've heard the same and that's why I recommended the Emotiva monoblocks. I'm pretty sure those could handle the load. One member here has three and uses them on all three front channels.
@RCHeliGuy and @Robert D make good points, but I think some clarification is needed here.
The earlier the generation of Emotiva amps, the better they were at handling low impedance. But, the latest Gen XPA amps can do well with low impedance, just not as well as amps that double down better at impedance lower than 4Ω.
The Gen 3 XPA amps all share the same architecture. The difference with the HC-1 and XPA-1 are that they both are single channel amps, and, other than the fact that the XPA-1 is in a larger case, these two amps use identical parts. If looking at the XPA-2, this will have two amp modules sharing a single power supply, same with all the models using more amp modules.
I tried a pair of HC-1 amps with my 13A speakers and the HC-1 amps did very well indeed! It was too close to call between the HC-1 and my Krell S-1500. It was only because the HC-1 was not distinctly better than my Krell that I ended up keeping the Krell connected to the 13A speakers (because I already owned it for years and the HC-1 represented a new cost), but I am using an HC-1 for my C18 center speaker! Full disclosure, I'm now using a Krell DUO 300XD for the 13A speakers and it is definitely an improvement over the S-1500.
With all that being said, and considering your situation - budget, wanting a single amp, etc, - I think you'd be happy with the XPA-2. It's certainly worth a try! Keep in mind that some of all of this is splitting hairs with really good amps.
The earlier the generation of Emotiva amps, the better they were at handling low impedance. But, the latest Gen XPA amps can do well with low impedance, just not as well as amps that double down better at impedance lower than 4Ω.
The Gen 3 XPA amps all share the same architecture. The difference with the HC-1 and XPA-1 are that they both are single channel amps, and, other than the fact that the XPA-1 is in a larger case, these two amps use identical parts. If looking at the XPA-2, this will have two amp modules sharing a single power supply, same with all the models using more amp modules.
I tried a pair of HC-1 amps with my 13A speakers and the HC-1 amps did very well indeed! It was too close to call between the HC-1 and my Krell S-1500. It was only because the HC-1 was not distinctly better than my Krell that I ended up keeping the Krell connected to the 13A speakers (because I already owned it for years and the HC-1 represented a new cost), but I am using an HC-1 for my C18 center speaker! Full disclosure, I'm now using a Krell DUO 300XD for the 13A speakers and it is definitely an improvement over the S-1500.
With all that being said, and considering your situation - budget, wanting a single amp, etc, - I think you'd be happy with the XPA-2. It's certainly worth a try! Keep in mind that some of all of this is splitting hairs with really good amps.
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I will defer to actual experience any day of the week. I also understand that the Class H power supply is supposed to be a lot more efficient.
I am very happy with my XPA-2 Gen 2.
I absolutely did not like the Emotiva XDA-3. I thought it both sounded poor and was not well matched to the XPA-2 along with being painful to use. The Eversolo DMP-A8 sounds much better without harshness and has much better volume control and seems very well matched to the XPA-2 and my ML's.
I am very happy with my XPA-2 Gen 2.
I absolutely did not like the Emotiva XDA-3. I thought it both sounded poor and was not well matched to the XPA-2 along with being painful to use. The Eversolo DMP-A8 sounds much better without harshness and has much better volume control and seems very well matched to the XPA-2 and my ML's.
Sunfire owner here (three amps) + Sanders ESL amp (the ideal ESL amp), and given your constraints, I'd stick with the Sunfire.
These will run for a very long time; the only unit I've had to recap is the 1993 vintage Sunfire Stereo that I purchased new to power my 1993 vintage SL3 speakers.
The 2000-vintage Cinema Grand Signature is still going strong, as is the 2002-vintage Cinema Grand. When they start having issues, I'll ship them off for a recap (around $700 each).
These will run for a very long time; the only unit I've had to recap is the 1993 vintage Sunfire Stereo that I purchased new to power my 1993 vintage SL3 speakers.
The 2000-vintage Cinema Grand Signature is still going strong, as is the 2002-vintage Cinema Grand. When they start having issues, I'll ship them off for a recap (around $700 each).
This is extremely reasonable!
I am about to send off my Carver Silver 7t amps for refreshing. They work great with my ESL X's.
I have owned a few Sunfire amps - 200x5, 300x2 and have and still don't have any issues with them. Solid amps considering what I paid in the used market. Light yet powerful and they deliver. I ran some Quest Z's with this amp and no problems handling the huge panels along with the 12 inch woofers.
My brother had an Emotiva amp that we plugged into my system. Sorry don't know the model of the Emotiva amp but I know it was huge (similar size as my McIntosh MC 402) and both my brother and I did not like the sound of Emotiva - we felt it was harsh sounding.
I've also tried a full Primaluna (tube pre and two tube power amps - one for each speaker) on my Montis and they were okay. In my system the McIntosh MC402 sounded the best as it had a tubeish sound yet solid state.
As you probably know you have 2 different ways to set up your Sunfire - one gives it a bit warmer sound. Wondering if you could test out the Emotiva and return it if you don't like it...
My brother had an Emotiva amp that we plugged into my system. Sorry don't know the model of the Emotiva amp but I know it was huge (similar size as my McIntosh MC 402) and both my brother and I did not like the sound of Emotiva - we felt it was harsh sounding.
I've also tried a full Primaluna (tube pre and two tube power amps - one for each speaker) on my Montis and they were okay. In my system the McIntosh MC402 sounded the best as it had a tubeish sound yet solid state.
As you probably know you have 2 different ways to set up your Sunfire - one gives it a bit warmer sound. Wondering if you could test out the Emotiva and return it if you don't like it...
After seeing responses, I think I'd stick with the Sunfire amp for as long as I could. Wait for it to die on you. Selling it now used as old as it is probably won't get a lot. Just ride it out and keep saving money for something nice in the future.
I never had a Sunfire amp, but I owned a Carver subwoofer. It was nice, and I sent it back to them to refurbish when it died on me. The price was less than 1/2 what the sub cost new.
I never had a Sunfire amp, but I owned a Carver subwoofer. It was nice, and I sent it back to them to refurbish when it died on me. The price was less than 1/2 what the sub cost new.
Another vote for the Sunfire here. I have to admit that I did sell my original Sunfire when I was young and full of it and trying anything and everything I could get my hands on. I now have a 2ch that works its way through my systems and does a great job handling my CLS's. I owned an XPA-2 for a year and tried hard to like it as it seemed a great value, but wound up actually re-purchasing the Sunfire that I still have.
Note - If you do have any issues, Bill Flannery is your guy. The Sunfire I have now has been refurbed by Bill and he is the last word on these amps.
Note - If you do have any issues, Bill Flannery is your guy. The Sunfire I have now has been refurbed by Bill and he is the last word on these amps.
Russr
Well-known member
Was following thi, as I'm considering trying different amps in the future. I've always mined the used market for equipment, and this will be no different. I followed the link provided to Bill Flannery's site - unfortunately it looks like he has retired due to health issues. I was really cool reading his story and how "Flannery's Vintage Audio Repair came to be.
Does anyone know of any alternative with a similar pedigree to Bill?
Thanks
While going over some of my old threads, I ran back across this comment. This convinced me to stick with the sunfire back in January and I am very happy I did! I’ve tried dating my sunfire but have been unsuccessful doing so. How did you date your amps? I’m curious how old mine is. Thanks for the great advice!
IIRC, the first two digits of the serial number are the year it was manufactured, so a model from 1993, would have "93" as the first two.
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