Yes it is on the second floor. There may be an elevator, but I didn't see one. The shop is set up like a regular house. Really great stuff and Casey McKee gives really good demo. Even though I was buying a relatively inexpensive piece (the Ayre C5) he treated me like I was buying X2's. He had such great taste in music I ended up buying several of his demo CD's at Waterloo! I think this is both the advantage and the disadvantage of "appointment only" establishments. Frankly, most of my big electronics purchases have been "spur of the moment" impulse buys. If I spend alot of time thinking about it I will find a reason not to buy!
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Yes it is on the second floor. There may be an elevator, but I didn't see one. The shop is set up like a regular house. Really great stuff and Casey McKee gives really good demo. Even though I was buying a relatively inexpensive piece (the Ayre C5) he treated me like I was buying X2's. He had such great taste in music I ended up buying several of his demo CD's at Waterloo! I think this is both the advantage and the disadvantage of "appointment only" establishments. Frankly, most of my big electronics purchases have been "spur of the moment" impulse buys. If I spend alot of time thinking about it I will find a reason not to buy!
TomDac
former MLO owner/operator
You live in the Bay area, so humidity is not an issue and your MLs should last a LONG LONG time. Obviously you should keep them away from direct sunlight, smoke, etc. I would not worry about their longevity.
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SJHart
Guest
You live in the Bay area, so humidity is not an issue and your MLs should last a LONG LONG time. Obviously you should keep them away from direct sunlight, smoke, etc. I would not worry about their longevity.
What dealer have you used in the area? I saw the Summits in San Ramon (at Magnolias).
K
karma
Guest
HI All,
I have seen quite a few comments concerning the life of ML panels in a smoking environment.
OK, I'm not going to fight the popular opinion. I will say this. I smoke. My 15+ year old CLSIIA panels have not suffered. I recently replaced my panels out of concern that they might become unavailable AND mine might be affected by smoke. I discovered that my original panels are perfectly fine.
I verified this both sonically and by electrical measurements on the panels themselves. I was concerned but I found no effects from smoking.
So, I question the veracity of such comments. Are these just like other urban Myth's? Are they being propagated just because it sounds good? I really don't know but unsubstantiated opinions are nothing more than fiction.
Sparky
I have seen quite a few comments concerning the life of ML panels in a smoking environment.
OK, I'm not going to fight the popular opinion. I will say this. I smoke. My 15+ year old CLSIIA panels have not suffered. I recently replaced my panels out of concern that they might become unavailable AND mine might be affected by smoke. I discovered that my original panels are perfectly fine.
I verified this both sonically and by electrical measurements on the panels themselves. I was concerned but I found no effects from smoking.
So, I question the veracity of such comments. Are these just like other urban Myth's? Are they being propagated just because it sounds good? I really don't know but unsubstantiated opinions are nothing more than fiction.
Sparky
Pcar928fan
Well-known member
Nah, Sparky, we just all hate smokers! ONLY KIDDING! Don't get your panties in a wad! For me the reason I think I mentioned it was because you DO have to clean your panels regularly because they pick stuff up due to static electricity and if there are more "pollutants" in the air logic tells you they will need cleaning and probably replacement sooner than a panel that has NOT been exposed to any "extra" pollutant.
I don't know that any "clinical studies" have been done to verify this, but it seems to be logical...though you have proven that you can smoke around your ML's and not NECESSARILY have to replace them any sooner than anyone else...YMMV!
I also smoke and have noticed no problems with my ML's the oldest of which I purchased in 2000.
I also smoke and have had my Sequel panels for over 13 years. No problems at all. The funny thing is that the apartment that I lived in had a major fire with serious smoke and fire damage. When I moved I thought I would have to have the panels replaced but the panels sound great. I have since washed them since moving but I really didn't notice a huge improvement, if at all. I'm really kind of amazed as I was expecting to have to buy new panels. Instead I just bought some Oddyseys to add to my system. Had to spend the money somewhere.
K
karma
Guest
HI Pcar,
You are not the only one who has propogated this idea. I'm not aiming at you specifically. I will say that you may be guilty of a type of logic that is not logic. It is opinion. You may be right (not so far) or you may just be parroting the current politically correct propoganda. Either way, proof is needed. You have none. I have some (agreed, not enough for a solid conclusion).
Really, I don't want to start a war over such a trivial issue. I respect you too much. I just wanted to point out my experience and make note that smoke is not a death blow to the panels. Why spook people if there is no reason? I hope you can understand and accept my reasoning.
Sparky (A Smoker)
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SJHart
Guest
Could the group also give me feedback on how Summits will perform in my current setup? The room is fairly small (11x16 with 8' ceilings). I will only beable to have the Summits a maximum of one foot from the back and side walls (vs. the recomendations in the manual). Thanks.
To all smokers and vacuumers
1. I agree with those who say smoking hasn't affected their panels. I don't smoke now, but did during 14 of the 16 years I've had my CLSIIz's with no problem. A little science: The idea that stators and/or membranes would attract smoke because of their electrostatic charge is erroneous. Smoke particles have no charge, and devices like electrostatic air cleaners first have to charge the smoke particles negatively with an ionizer, and then collect them on a positively charged grid. Also, the panels are vertical, so it's unlikely smoke would simply settle on them easily.
2. RE Vacuuming the panels: OK, it can't hurt, but I've found it far more effective to attach a hose and crevice tool (as in "nozzle") to the output side of a tank vacuum and blow the panels off on each side starting at the top. Keep the nozzle about a foot from the panels and it'll be quite safe. In lieu of a tank vacuum, I've even used the little cans of compressed air like "Dust Off", but that can get expensive.
1. I agree with those who say smoking hasn't affected their panels. I don't smoke now, but did during 14 of the 16 years I've had my CLSIIz's with no problem. A little science: The idea that stators and/or membranes would attract smoke because of their electrostatic charge is erroneous. Smoke particles have no charge, and devices like electrostatic air cleaners first have to charge the smoke particles negatively with an ionizer, and then collect them on a positively charged grid. Also, the panels are vertical, so it's unlikely smoke would simply settle on them easily.
2. RE Vacuuming the panels: OK, it can't hurt, but I've found it far more effective to attach a hose and crevice tool (as in "nozzle") to the output side of a tank vacuum and blow the panels off on each side starting at the top. Keep the nozzle about a foot from the panels and it'll be quite safe. In lieu of a tank vacuum, I've even used the little cans of compressed air like "Dust Off", but that can get expensive.
First of all, as a non-smoker who has been in the homes and cars of smokers on a regular basis, I can attest to the fact that cigarette smoke sticks to everything. Curtains, walls, upholstery, etc. etc. Everything. If you think that it is not sticking to the lightweight membrane in your Martin Logan speakers, you are simply deluding yourself. Whether or not it causes any harm to the panels that one can hear as a degradation in sound over time, I have no idea. But I do know that if I were buying used Martin Logans, I would not buy them from a smoker.
By the way, as to where this "rumor" about smoke potentially damaging your speakers got started, look no further than your Martin Logan speaker manual. In the manual for my new Clarities it states: "Exposure to excessive contaminants such as smoke or dust may potentially affect the performance of the electrostatic membrane, and may cause discoloration of the diaphragm membrane."
lugano
Well-known member
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I am a smoker, too. But:
- I don't ever smoke in my car
- I don't ever smoke in the living room where the ML's are located.
Actually, at home I only smoke in the kitchen (under the integrated extractor) or outside. In Europe we are way away from the anti-smoke US fundamentalism - it's a common sense regulated thing, and it 90% works.
Back to the topic - I'm very curious about the new Thiel CS3.7 - did anybody attending the CES have the opportunity of listening to them ?
http://thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site05/PDF_files/PDF_product_lit/CS3_7preliminfo.pdf
- I don't ever smoke in my car
- I don't ever smoke in the living room where the ML's are located.
Actually, at home I only smoke in the kitchen (under the integrated extractor) or outside. In Europe we are way away from the anti-smoke US fundamentalism - it's a common sense regulated thing, and it 90% works.
Back to the topic - I'm very curious about the new Thiel CS3.7 - did anybody attending the CES have the opportunity of listening to them ?
http://thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site05/PDF_files/PDF_product_lit/CS3_7preliminfo.pdf
jjqiv
Well-known member
That's your opinion only because you are smoker and are not violated by the stench and disease in public places. The pro non-smoker laws (i.e. not anti-smoker laws) are a god send. You can come home from an evening out with clear sinuses and clean smelling clothes. Its Europe that is backwards on this issue.
jjqiv
Well-known member
We bought our house from smokers. The oily, brownish-yellow layer of crap we had to scrub off the walls was disgusting. The curtains and carpets went in the dumpster. What make you think that wouldn't stick to the stators?
a matter of degree
Well, like I said to Rich, it's a matter of degree. Three or more packs a day in a room with no forced air and no filtration will indeed get a film. Like I said, it's a matter of degree. When I smoked it was more like a pack a week, not usually in my listening room, and I've used a multiroom ozone/ion generator for a long time now. The proof for me, is that when a couple times a year I wipe down the stators with a cloth dampened with Windex or 409, nothing brown ever comes off on the cloth. I don't know what else I can tell you?
Well, like I said to Rich, it's a matter of degree. Three or more packs a day in a room with no forced air and no filtration will indeed get a film. Like I said, it's a matter of degree. When I smoked it was more like a pack a week, not usually in my listening room, and I've used a multiroom ozone/ion generator for a long time now. The proof for me, is that when a couple times a year I wipe down the stators with a cloth dampened with Windex or 409, nothing brown ever comes off on the cloth. I don't know what else I can tell you?
lugano
Well-known member
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"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.”
Ronald Reagan
That was not a house, it was a cuban cigar test facility
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jjqiv
Well-known member
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.”
Ronald Reagan
You think your right to smoke proceeds my right not to smoke? Ha! Not here!
The smoking laws are designed to protetct us from each other. No one is telling you can't smoke in private.
That was not a house, it was a cuban cigar test facility
Make mine a ....Monte Cristo #2.....or perhaps a....... Bolivar Churchill...... nope I think I'll try a..... Hoyo de Montery Dbl. Corona..ahhhhhh, lets take this discussion over to "Off Topics" and talk cigars and maybe some single malt !!
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SJHart
Guest
Although the smoking component of this thread has been interesting, could someone give me feedback?
