Summit Setup

[fordste]

I am a new Summit owner (3 weeks) and am trying to get good advice on a starting point for speaker setup. I have a 24 x 14' room with speakers on the short wall 3' behind and 2' to side wall. I sit 2' up from the back wall. The amp is a Tact Millennium MkIII with a Tact RSC 2.0S processor/preamp.
Using a laser I adjusted the tilt to have the center of the panel at the ear height of the listening position. To do this I had to remove the front spikes (does anyone know if longer spikes can be purchased for the back?) to get the tilt more upright.
I also had the speakers toe-in where using the flash light technique with the light 1/3 the distance across the inside face of the panel.

With this setup the speakers had a good center image but did not disappear. In reading the review in Absolute Sound the reviewer stated he basically did not toe his in. I have tried that was much better imaging results. Much better depth and the speakers are disappearing much better.

I have measured (hold on to your hats) +20 DBA at 25 Hz. They are also up about 4 DB in the entire 8K region making the fairly aggressive. I know this can be corrected with the room correction on the Tact but I like to start by getting the setup right before room correction.

I know this is allot of stuff but what advice do any of you have for me?

 

[tonyc]

Congratulations on your new speakers. Begin with the recommended tweak setup in the owners manual or use the placement recommended on the cardas website. Either of these placements will bring you speakers much farther out into the room. Mine are about 60" from the back wall and 30" or so from each sidewall, slightly more than 7' apart. I sit about 8-10 feet back from the plane of the speakers. jtwrace makes longer Summit spikes which I purchased and highly recommend tho I do not tilt mine. Use the 25 Hz knob on the back of the Summit to adjust bass. BTW the Summits respond to aftermarket power cords. Enjoy!!

 

[edwinr]

Hi,

I've owned Summits now for over a year. The first few weeks were a little frustrating, trying to set the speakers up as best I can. I made a lot of mistakes as I was too focused on the kind of speakers I had previously owned (Klipschorns and the usual dynamic selections).

So don't be scared to experiment. Use the owners manual as a guide to get you going. From there you can establish what sounds good and what doesn't in your particular room. Regarding the tilt, I don't find this to be all that crucial. Toe-in is much more important as this influences what you willl experience vis a vis soundstage and imaging. Also I suggest you pick a reasonable position for your speakers and leave them there for a little while. Once your ears have adjusted to the sound, you can start to 'tweak'. Otherwise making drastic changes in positioning without some sort of reference to work from will be counter productive.

The bass controls are very useful. Leaving them on the '0' position at first, I moved my speakers around the room until I found a good spot where the bass ounded okay at my listening position. From there I played around with the toe-in and distance apart. The next step was tuning in the bass. I found it better to find a position where the bass controls responded to minor tweaking rather than drastic correctiion.

The Summits take a looooong time to properly run-in. Don't settle on your 'final' position until more than several weeks have passed. Be prepared to do more tweaking even after a year.

Also everytime your change an amplifier or source component, expect to conduct further tweaks with your speaker setup. The Summits are so sensitive to component change that careful thought shouild be given before any upgrades are implemented.

Just some thoughts.

Good luck.

 

[JonFo]

... I sit 2' up from the back wall. ...

I have measured (hold on to your hats) +20 DBA at 25 Hz. They are also up about 4 DB in the entire 8K region making the fairly aggressive...

The huge boost in low-frequency is due to being so close to the rear wall. I'd suggest moving the seating position further forward is you can. In a 24' long room, that hopefully is not an issue.

The TacT will cure that if it has to, but as you say, better get the basics as right as possible before correction.

The 8K bulge will probably need room treatments to tame.

Enjoy the new speakers.

 

[kcl]

Sincere congrats on you new summits. I know you'll just love them.

In terms of the initial setup, I'd just go with the manual's recommendations to start with. As was stated earlier in the thread, these speakers take a looong time to break in. (At least 200 hours is the generally accepted minimum, but the audiophile that I bought my summits from swears that they took 500 hours!) The point is, you'll need to wait for your speakers to be fully broken in until you can do your final positioning.

Also, unless you are intimately familiar with the audio from your speakers, I would contend that you need to break yourself in, too! I found that I needed to become 'conditioned' to the superb quality of audio from my speakers before I could start to distinguish the various nuances I'd get from positioning changes.

 

[Craig]

I've been using Summits since Jan 06 and over several months I've moved them all over my room and even had them in HT system for a short time. They worked quite well in the HT room with exceptional bass. The accumulation of acoustic room treatments have made an impact.

I've settled on using them in 2 channel system and have them 5 feet (measured from the front of the cabinet) from the front wall and about 7 feet apart (end-to-end). This setup combined with 2 good bass traps and several absorption panels around the room really help the speakers sonically disappear into the room and bass is very tight and full. by keeping them closer together I can get good imaging without have to use too much toe-in.

Placing the speakers 5 feet from the front wall sets the correct timing of the back wave from the rear of the speaker which then bounces off the front wall and blends in with the front wave off the front of the speaker. Having the speakers too close to the front wall screws up the dipole speaker timing. 5 feet is usually about right for most but each room is different. These speakers produce as much sound from the rear as they do from the front and it's key to make that backwave work for you. Somtimes it helps to diffuse the backwave especially if there isn't enough room to pull the speakers far from the front wall.

I also use a set of custom spikes from JTWRACE that allow me to apply more forward tilt than the stock spikes would allow. Toe-in is slight. I find that using more toe-in produces more imaging but less toe-in produces more soundstaging. I've worked to find a happy medium and for me slight toe-in works best in my system and room.

As with most speakers, good room acoustics have a lot to do with how well these speakers image, soundstage, tighten up the bass and sweeten the mids and highs. My room required a lot of tweaking to get it to sound the way I like. The challenge was treating the room while maintaining a comfortable/useable living room with some WAF. Of course I'm lucky to have very tolerant WAF.

The speakers haven't moved in several months and I'm loving the sounds.

Signal Path:>> Wadia 581i SACD >> HT Magic XLR Interconnects >> No Preamp >>Electrocompaniet AW220 Mono Amps >> Audience Au24 BiWire Speaker Cables >> Summits >> Walls, Furniture, Bass Traps, Acoustic Panels, Padded Carpet, Silk Trees, Dog >> Ears!

 

[Joey_V]

From my experience, the Summits require atleast 3-4 feet from the back wall to the cabinet... and an aggressive toe-in, almost to the point where the panel stares at you at seated position. The tilt should be towards listener also to get a proper height and information sent to you.

About 7-10 feet apart is good also.

CONGRATS on your wonderful Summits! :welcome: to the club!

*secret Summit handshake*



Joey

 

[benleeys]

I am a new Summit owner (3 weeks) and am trying to get good advice on a starting point for speaker setup. I have a 24 x 14' room with speakers on the short wall 3' behind and 2' to side wall. I sit 2' up from the back wall...... I have measured (hold on to your hats) +20 DBA at 25 Hz.

fordste,

Welcome to the Summit club!

Our rooms are of similar size and I also have a huge boost at around 25Hz plus a considerable dip around 40Hz. In my case, the problem came mainly from the resonating cabinets I have along 2 sides of the room. Adding heavy carpet tiles to the doors tamed the resonance. In addition, I have the Velodyne SMS-1 and ASC base traps to assist. Sounds pretty good now.

 

[MOON]

You need to move the speakers out into the room more , 5 ft would be good as already suggested

 

[kcl]

CONGRATS on your wonderful Summits! :welcome: to the club!

*secret Summit handshake*

I can't believe I forgot to mention the secret handshake. Thanks, Joey!

 

[babydoc]

Summit Placement

Fordste, I agree with most of what you have been told. M-L recommends in their manual a formula for determining distance from front wall based on ceiling height. This works out to about 56 inches to the center of the panel for a room that is 8 feet high. The rest of the spacing and tilting is going to depend on your ears. A little forward tilt can be achieved with Jwtrace spikes which come in several sizes or you can put small blocks under the rear spikes. I would not recommend taking the front spikes off because that will put the bottom woofer on the floor and muffle it. You can also use a radio shack SPL meter if you want to get equal measured response out of both panels. However, your ears will still be the final arbiter of how your speaker placement works for your room.

 

[jmljake]

Spikes

Spikes are available from jtwrace. They are 1 1/2 inches longer then the ML ones.

 

[music again]

SPL meter

You can also use a radio shack SPL meter if you want to get equal measured response out of both panels. However, your ears will still be the final arbiter of how your speaker placement works for your room.

I stopped by Radio Shack the other day and I see they have a really nice looking unit with a digital read out for around $50.00. It's not that much more than the unit with the needle/dial.

OK, dumb question . . . . how exactly do you use an SPL meter!

JM

 

[kcl]

OK, dumb question . . . . how exactly do you use an SPL meter!

Your receiver/pre-amp should have a menu selection that will output a constant-level 'test sound' through each of your speakers, as well as the ability to adjust the signal's volume to each. The basic SPL adjustment you want to do is, for each speaker, modify the output so that the SPL value at your listening position is same for each.

Note that there could be significantly more you might want to do, as each type of manufacturer has various unique adjustments their receiver/pre-amp can make. For example, almost all of the high-end ones allow you to enter the linear distance to each speaker (from your head at the listening position), and you would want to do this before the SPL adjustments.

 

[music again]

Test CD's

The basic SPL adjustment you want to do is, for each speaker, modify the output so that the SPL value at your listening position is same for each.

What about the use of the Stereophile test CD's for this purpose?
Could you take measurements using tracks at certain Hz?

JM

 

[kcl]

What about the use of the Stereophile test CD's for this purpose?
Could you take measurements using tracks at certain Hz?

JM

Sure. All you really need is a consistent, repeatable sound source, the ability to isolate it to a single speaker, and the ability to adjust the volume of that speaker. The higher-end equipment just make it more convenient to accomplish this, that's all.

 

[music again]

Unfortunately, once you get past the Summits that should arrive in a week or two, "high end" is non-existent in my system . . . . yet. I'm running an old (but in good condition) Hafler amp and preamp! I'll have to resort to the test CD's for now.

JM

 

[tonepub]

The JW Trace spikes are excellent, I have a pair in for demo...

In my room, I have about three feet more depth than you do,
so I don't really need them, but in your application, I bet they would
be good.

Also, if you can reconfigure your room a bit, you might like the
long wall with your speakers about 7 feet from the side walls....

Don't know if you want to schlep everything around, but I'm really
enjoying the Summits on the long wall!

Good luck with the setup....