Summit bass?

[benleeys]

Benleey what is ur method of testing the bass drivers on ur summits? I just listen to the front one and touch the bottom one to see if there working! Thanks

If I suspect the bass is lacking, that's what I do. Decoupling the stat panels from the bass at the input makes for easier listening test. For confirmation, I'd do an ARC sweep.

The thing is, the ICE amps don't simply stop working all of a sudden; they get softer and softer over time, so you may miss it in the beginning unless you do a frequency sweep. In my case, I'd say it took about 18 months to reach the state you see in the graphs I posted earlier. By then, you can feel that the bottom speaker cone is hardly pulsing at normal listening volume.

 

[sleepysurf]

Benleeys,

Glad to see your Summits are back in service again. Did Scott have any idea why you've had recurring failures of the IcePower woofer modules?

 

[benleeys]

Benleeys,

Glad to see your Summits are back in service again. Did Scott have any idea why you've had recurring failures of the IcePower woofer modules?

He didn't. Just said that it's unusual that the ICE amps should fail slowly over time instead of simply stopped working.

I am concerned that the new amps won't last long as these new version "K" is specified to draw 45 watts of power compared to 39 watts for the earlier versions. And they do seem to give out a fair amount of heat (rear connection plate very warm to touch) even when the speaker is actually in standby mode. During Scott's absence, his colleague , Brian Bailey, said that he has not come across any heat related problem which I am skeptical of.

There must be a sizable number of 10 year-old, or older, Summits around and I don't believe the issue I am experiencing is unique.

 

[khenegar]

Summit amps

He didn't. Just said that it's unusual that the ICE amps should fail slowly over time instead of simply stopped working.

I am concerned that the new amps won't last long as these new version "K" is specified to draw 45 watts of power compared to 39 watts for the earlier versions. And they do seem to give out a fair amount of heat (rear connection plate very warm to touch) even when the speaker is actually in standby mode. During Scott's absence, his colleague , Brian Bailey, said that he has not come across any heat related problem which I am skeptical of.

There must be a sizable number of 10 year-old, or older, Summits around and I don't believe the issue I am experiencing is unique.

When I asked Scott what’s causing my summit amps to go bad he said electronics fail. That is why I said I’ll never buy a self power speaker again. Anyone want to buy a pair?

 

[benleeys]

When I asked Scott what’s causing my summit amps to go bad he said electronics fail. That is why I said I’ll never buy a self power speaker again. Anyone want to buy a pair?

Most subs are self powered with ICE amps these days. Mostly because they run relatively cool and so do not require heatsinks.

 

[khenegar]

Amps/ic

Most subs are self powered with ICE amps these days. Mostly because they run relatively cool and so do not require heatsinks.

I have two depth subs older than my summits i used them with my Sl3’s which I have never had an ic amp problem with. Why are the summits so prone to failure?

 

[benleeys]

I have two depth subs older than my summits i used them with my Sl3’s which I have never had an ic amp problem with. Why are the summits so prone to failure?

Count yourself lucky, Khenegar. Look at what happened to my Descent-I. One of the 3 ICE amps caught fire. Besides disabling the other 2 amps and the PS board, it also blew up all 3 speaker units. The only item salvaged was the enclosure.

Maybe I am jinxed. :wtf:

 

[sleepysurf]

Wow! I'm beginning to think your problems might be from surges above 230V from your electric utility in Singapore. Are you still using the Richard Gray conditioners/surge protectors? Perhaps one of them is defective.

 

[khenegar]

Ice’s

Count yourself lucky, Khenegar. Look at what happened to my Descent-I. One of the 3 ICE amps caught fire. Besides disabling the other 2 amps and the PS board, it also blew up all 3 speaker units. The only item salvaged was the enclosure.

Maybe I am jinxed. :wtf:

View attachment 20353

Holy cow I guess I am lucky what did martinlogan say about that, hope it was still under warranty! I can see why ur skeptical about powered subs.

 

[benleeys]

Holy cow I guess I am lucky what did martinlogan say about that, hope it was still under warranty! I can see why ur skeptical about powered subs.

The sub was already about 8 years old in 2014. ML shipped me all the speaker units, circuit boards and wire harness. It was a back breaking job working in the confined space inside the enclosure screwing everything in place - I didn't trust my dealer's men to do a proper job.

Don't really know what ML told my dealer, but I must say they were very generous in practically replacing the sub. It's still thumping away in my system.

I doubt if it's the mains supply that is at fault, otherwise, the Summits and Stage would have suffered the same fate. All of them are connected directly to the wall sockets.

With the Summits, I am beginning to suspect the problem could be the signal sensing circuit not operating. Yes, the LEDs do indicate standby mode, but it makes no sense that whether the speakers are active or on standby mode, the rear panels feel equally rather warm. It does seem amps are on 24/7, hence the gradual degradation issue, most likely due to the constant heating.

Brian Baily in Lawrence, KA, said they're on skeleton staffing in the current Covid-19 situation, so it may take a while to check out my suspicion.

 

[khenegar]

Benleeys: I have my depths, stage and summits on a single power strip and have been unplugging it when not in use. Especially when there is a thunder storm going on. I would think a ups would be ideal to use on these self powered units. I also notice how warm the back plates get wish they would have a built in on off power switch. Do they make a power strip that powers down when not in use and power up when things power up?

 

[ttocs]

Triggered power strip: https://www.amazon.com/Niles-AC3-FG00242-Voltage-Triggered/dp/B00086IDDC/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=power+strip+with+trigger&qid=1585584178&sr=8-5

 

[benleeys]

Benleeys: I have my depths, stage and summits on a single power strip and have been unplugging it when not in use. Especially when there is a thunder storm going on. I would think a ups would be ideal to use on these self powered units. I also notice how warm the back plates get wish they would have a built in on off power switch. Do they make a power strip that powers down when not in use and power up when things power up?

Don't know whether UPS is suitable for the Summits. When I first had mine, it used to trip my mains fuse whenever I power them on because of the very high transient. So, now I power them on one at a time.

I really don't like to power off the speakers every time I turn off the system. I find the loud "plop" they emit when powering on actually rather unnerving! :stop: So, I do so only when I am leaving the house for a few days.

Actually, power supply in Singapore is very safe from effects of thunder storms. The network of power cables and telephone lines throughout the island is run along tunnels deep underground. Nothing overhead to attract lightnings and falling trees.

 

[ttocs]

Don't know whether UPS is suitable for the Summits. When I first had mine, it used to trip my mains fuse whenever I power them on because of the very high transient. So, now I power them on one at a time.

I really don't like to power off the speakers every time I turn off the system. I find the loud "plop" they emit when powering on actually rather unnerving! :stop: So, I do so only when I am leaving the house for a few days.

None of this sounds normal.

Tripping the breaker is concerning for a device which is supposed to draw a max of 350 + 350 watts. You should be able to startup a device which uses almost all of the rated current without a fault. First thing that jumps to my mind is a loose connection in the house wiring. Electrical connections can loosen over time. Check the set screw on the breaker - it should be really tight, and check the wire connections at the outlet. This could cause the loud "pop" in the speaker as well due to arcing in a non-secure connection - small current can maybe get the amp circuit going a little bit followed by unmuted full power.

I've had personal experience with loose connections, and luckily only one resulted in a small fire, the plug caught on fire and I was there to blow it out until the breaker tripped. 1200 watt heater on a 20 Amp circuit. The wire was not tight on the back of the outlet, wasn't "loose" either, just not tight. This was the newest circuit in the house and was one of the few 3 wire circuits, but it was around 20 years old at the time.

 

[benleeys]

None of this sounds normal.

Tripping the breaker is concerning for a device which is supposed to draw a max of 350 + 350 watts. You should be able to startup a device which uses almost all of the rated current without a fault. First thing that jumps to my mind is a loose connection in the house wiring. Electrical connections can loosen over time. Check the set screw on the breaker - it should be really tight, and check the wire connections at the outlet. This could cause the loud "pop" in the speaker as well due to arcing in a non-secure connection - small current can maybe get the amp circuit going a little bit followed by unmuted full power.

I've had personal experience with loose connections, and luckily only one resulted in a small fire, the plug caught on fire and I was there to blow it out until the breaker tripped. 1200 watt heater on a 20 Amp circuit. The wire was not tight on the back of the outlet, wasn't "loose" either, just not tight. This was the newest circuit in the house and was one of the few 3 wire circuits, but it was around 20 years old at the time.

Nothing is wrong with my house wiring. The trip issue was brought to ML's attention. They confirmed on paper (I still have it) that there's a surge of a total of 143.118 A during the first 0.003 sec when both speakers are turned on together. The surge drops to 42.936 A at 0.01 sec. That's more than enough to trip my 230 Vac/20 A MCB. At 1 sec, it's 0.429 A.

 

[Speedskater]

Nothing is wrong with my house wiring. The trip issue was brought to ML's attention. They confirmed on paper (I still have it) that there's a surge of a total of 143.118 A during the first 0.003 sec when both speakers are turned on together. The surge drops to 42.936 A at 0.01 sec. That's more than enough to trip my 230 Vac/20 A MCB. At 1 sec, it's 0.429 A.

Any 15 or 20 Amp residential circuit can easily deal with that momentary spike. The 15 & 20 Amp ratings are for a continuous 3 hour period. The breakers have some built-in time delay. An old fashioned 15A incandescent lighting circuit (say in a store) would draw a momentary 150 Amps at turn-on.

 

[ttocs]

Nothing is wrong with my house wiring. The trip issue was brought to ML's attention. They confirmed on paper (I still have it) that there's a surge of a total of 143.118 A during the first 0.003 sec when both speakers are turned on together. The surge drops to 42.936 A at 0.01 sec. That's more than enough to trip my 230 Vac/20 A MCB. At 1 sec, it's 0.429 A.

I see. I'm sure that if you're like me you've already investigated switching to a different spec breaker, not higher amperage, but one that allows greater inrush current. Below is a chart showing some common types and the inrush characteristics. Please note that all 3 inrush curves START at 0.01 seconds, so it's still a bit strange that yours is tripping which may indicate that the inrush is lasting longer than ML spec'd. So maybe choosing a breaker with a higher inrush allowance would solve the issue of being able to turn on both at the same time. This being said, you've already got a very simple solution of powering on one at a time. I'm just showing the chart so others can understand how some breakers work.


So does every Summit thump?

 

[Speedskater]

Breakers may not last forever, especially if they are overloaded (and tripped) by other appliances on the circuit.

 

[peacefulcargo]

I had a number of blows on equipment but after a year of research found these to be brilliant and used them to front end all my kit
https://www.brennenstuhl.co.uk/en-G...ne-surge-protected-adapter-13.500-a-sp-240-gb

 

[pambs]

Scott has also advice me to remove the sound deading material from the enclosure. However that is not a systematic solution. An upgrade of the amp, psu or some sort of protection needs to be installed. My first experience was with a surge which blew the capacitors of the amp, that was also visible. Second time was what you describe above bass just not there without any prior signal...