Subwoofer. What's the point...

[daniel]

What's the point to have a sub able to go over 100db since most of us usually listen 90db or less.

cf:http://67.19.167.226/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=10366

 

[MOON]

What's the point to have a sub able to go over 100db since most of us usually listen 90db or less.

I guess that would mainly be for be for movies. A track that sounds just beautiful with a sub for music is the last track on Patriot Games soundtrack.It is one of my favorites. The sub is subtle but really adds quite a bit to the music.

I tend to have movies with good sound turned up a bit. It seems to add more impact to the whole movie experience as a whole, visual + audio.Take a movie like Deji a vu for instance with all it's low bass throughout. It's just a whole lot better experience with it up a bit.
Cheers, Greg

 

[daniel]

What's the point to have a sub able to go over 100db since most of us usually listen 90db or less.

I guess that would mainly be for be for movies. A track that sounds just beautiful with a sub for music is the last track on Patriot Games soundtrack.It is one of my favorites. The sub is subtle but really adds quite a bit to the music.

I tend to have movies with good sound turned up a bit. It seems to add more impact to the whole movie experience as a whole, visual + audio.Take a movie like Deji a vu for instance with all it's low bass throughout. It's just a whole lot better experience with it up a bit.
Cheers, Greg

Good point!

 

[JonFo]

It's about being able to play at reference levels, which for movies involves the audio spectrum, including low-frequencies, being able to hit 105dB SPL.

A movie that calls for that level (and many do), requires some pretty massive subwoofers.

I used to have 2 Velodyne UL-18's, and my IB sub kills those in ability.

Due to flecther-munson curves, our hearing is less sensitive in the bass, and thus requires a speaker system that can deliver a good bit of of output at those frequencies. This means (due to physics) a rather large amount of air displacement.

Of course, this is proportional to the size room you are trying to energize, but for the avg. 2,500 cubit foot room, a minimum of 9 liters of air displacement is advisable.

A ML Descent will do fine for something like that.

Also, do not underestimate the amount of bass a well-recorded music disc will have. Even classical will place substantial demands on a bass driver.

They key is to have a sub that is accurate.

 

[DTB300]

They key is to have a sub that is accurate.

Hooray!!!! Finally.....

 

[amey01]

Dynamics - the average listening level may be 90dB for sure, but what if a dynamic passage comes along and asks the sub to produce 110dB for 0.3 ms?

Do you want it to sound real and lifelike, or do you want the life sucked out of it by compression and distortion?

That said - an accurate sub is far more important than one that will play loud read: do dynamic sections well.

 

[daniel]

Accuracy. That's what we are all looking for.
Why would we own Martin logan Loudspeaker if not for accuracy. ( They look pretty too, but we all agree that doesn,t count. )

 

[daniel]

It's about being able to play at reference levels, which for movies involves the audio spectrum, including low-frequencies, being able to hit 105dB SPL.

From, avtalk sub tests:

Which sub would be able to sustain 105 db?
(result for 20 and 25 hz)
Depth? No. Not even close (88db/94db)
Paradigm Servo 15? No (93db/100db)
Rel Stadium? No (90db/95db)
Sunfire: True Subwoofer EQ? No(--/95db)
Svs: Pb12-nsd? No, but we're getting closer. (99db/100db)
SVS: PB13-Ultra (20Hz Tune)? Yes, Finally!!! (107db/110db)
(Most if not all svs suv seam to be able to do the job)
Velodyne dd-10? Not at all!
Velodyne dd-18? Close(95db/100db)
Velodyne hgs-18 and spl-1500(same as dd-18)

From Home Theater shack:

JL audio Fathom f113? Yes ( 101/110)

For further tests: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/6015-index-subwoofer-tests-manufacturer-model.html
http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=54

 

[FISH_MAN]

what's the point of a sports car that goes 160 ??? accuracy is Dependant on reserve power. classical music often needs that kind of power.

 

[JonFo]

From, avtalk sub tests:...

Interesting data points.

Of course, those are all taken outdoors to even the playing field.

But we all know that most subs, when placed in a small room (<2,500 cu ft) benefit from room gain to both extend their lower limit and overall SPL ability.

So a Depth that does not hit >100 in open air, could well deliver that result in a room. But since every room is different, hard to predict.

The most amazing metrics are not the SPL, but the harmonic distortion products. Wow, most of those subs are crap WRT that. This is why I have an Infinite Baffle Sub. Super Low Distortion AND high SPL ability. A good match to the ESL's.

 

[slowGEEZR]

what's the point of a sports car that goes 160 ??? accuracy is Dependant on reserve power. classical music often needs that kind of power.

My car can do 160. I'm just saying.

 

[MOON]

You should change your user name to fastgeezr

 

[kach22i]

My car can do 160. I'm just saying.

Mine can only do 140 mph, I must need a new car.

A subwoofer is so that you can feel the music, not just hear the music.

 

[JonFo]

...

A subwoofer is so that you can feel the music, not just hear the music.

Absolutely, we should not underestimate the fact that humans sense sound not just through the ears, but also through skin surface and body cavity resonances.

See Sean Olive's research on this topic.

 

[daniel]

Interesting data points.

Of course, those are all taken outdoors to even the playing field.

But we all know that most subs, when placed in a small room (<2,500 cu ft) benefit from room gain to both extend their lower limit and overall SPL ability.

So a Depth that does not hit >100 in open air, could well deliver that result in a room. But since every room is different, hard to predict.

The most amazing metrics are not the SPL, but the harmonic distortion products. Wow, most of those subs are crap WRT that. This is why I have an Infinite Baffle Sub. Super Low Distortion AND high SPL ability. A good match to the ESL's.

What I would like to see is some indoor measurements. ( But the best that I could find were those outdoor measurements.

I did few years ago experiment comparing outdoor and indoor performance. My Dynaudio had plenty of bass inside but were bass shy outside. The fact is that the closer one place is loudspeaker (subwoofer) to a nearby wall, the louder the bass will be.
p.s. I don't remember how many low frequency decibels could be add by moving a sub closer the a wall. I might be wrong but I think there is some math we can use for this.