Subs for CLS's

[Kbuss]

Hi everyone,

I'm just returning to this group after being "gone" the last 2 years busy w/ other "stuff" audio and not. I have been redoing cabling the last 2-3 years (thank you Chris Sommovigo!) and am now creating a musical system again. I had previously considered selling my CLS z's for something else (?) and now that things are becoming musical again, I'm seriously considering keeping. If I do keep, I wish to finally bring in the bottom octave to degree room will allow w/ a pair of subs, operating at speaker level off my amp. I am considering either a pair of Descent I's or the Aerial SW12's. My room is 13.5 X 28 X 8. The CLS' are dialed in to room exactly and I have worked several years to maximize room correction/tuning very well. Except for TT (Well Temp Ref.), all equipment is Forsell.

If I do this, I would like to corner load at front corners to degree possible.

Any experienced suggestions would be helpful in this process.

Thanks,

Kbuss

 

[DTB300]

I am considering either a pair of Descent I's or the Aerial SW12's.

I have heard both many times and the Descent is a superior sounding sub all around IMO - and this is from someone with great respect for Aerial speakers. You may like the sound of the SW12 better - so listen to them both if you can.

If possible, take a look/listen to JL Audio Subs. Since you are talking pairs, a pair of 110's or 112's depending on budget, music only, or HT duty too.

JL has EQ ability built into their subs which is a plus in my eyes/ears. Bass EQ with room bass treatments will really help dial in the subs for your CLS.

BTW, welcome to the MLC...

 

[RUR]

If possible, take a look/listen to JL Audio Subs. Since you are talking pairs, a pair of 110's or 112's depending on budget, music only, or HT duty too.

JL has EQ ability built into their subs which is a plus in my eyes/ears. Bass EQ with room bass treatments will really help dial in the subs for your CLS....

Conveniently, Jeff's reviewed a pair of f110's in the latest issue and concluded "The FL110’s exceeded my expectations by a considerable margin and are not only the most musical subwoofers I’ve had the privilege of using, but by far the easiest to set up."

I believe the JL EQ is limited to taming the largest peak, but it's still a nice feature and I couldn't be more pleased with my f112.

 

[tonepub]

Having lived with a pair of Descent i's and the F110's, I could live with either, and both integrate with ML's better than anything else I've tried.

The main differences (for me) between the two was that the Descent i's will definitely go down deeper than the F110's, but require more care in setup and were tougher to place in my room, because of how I have my system set up.

The F110's are about $2000 a pair cheaper than the Descent i's and thanks to their built in optimization circuitry can be set up in a snap.

The F110's have slightly more texture and definition, but the Descent's have more ultimate slam.

You couldn't go wrong with either, but your ultimate musical taste and your placement options I think might be the deciding factor in which direction you go.

 

[churchill]

I agree with Ken, I recently purchased the JL Audio F112 to integrate with my Vista's and JL Bass EQ is an easy set up. This sub is fast, accurate and deep! I would highly recommend a listen to the JL.

 

[RUR]

...JL Bass EQ is an easy set up.

Extra bonus! The stepped tones used in the setup will identify every loose object in the room.

 

[zaphod]

i've had a depth with my CLS for the last two years. just seamless all around and dead easy to place. it just disappears until needed, and then all my internal organs remind me it's there

as my new room will be bigger, i got a second depth to pair things up.

 

[zaphod]

Extra bonus! The stepped tones used in the setup will identify every loose object in the room.

yeah, the Bryston pre/pro has a setting to "never push the sub more than it can handle". a top end SPL limiter basically. but to use it you have to increase sound to the sub until you start to hear it strain.

i did this with my DIY sub. it was in the basement on concrete slab. pictures in the floor above came off the walls during that calibration phase. i set the limit to less than that

 

[twich54]

If possible, take a look/listen to JL Audio Subs. Since you are talking pairs, a pair of 110's or 112's depending on budget, music only, or HT duty too....

Ditto.......listened to the 112's @ Overture early this year. As Dan and Jeff stated with thier built in Eq'ing it's a no brainer. Myself I have a Velodyne DD-15 and while I'm completely happy, were I to do it again.....JL for sure.

 

[robertawillisjr]

Anyone try SVS?

 

[Craig]

...If I do this, I would like to corner load at front corners to degree possible.

Any experienced suggestions would be helpful in this process.

Thanks,

Kbuss

Why would you want to corner load the subs, especially if you have two? You will likely have cleaner/tighter bass if you don't place them in the corners.

Also, a pair of Depth i's may be all the sub you need at a significantly lower cost than Descent i's. I have a Descent i with a pair of CLSIIz's and it integrates very well. If I didn't already have the Descent i, I think I would go with a Depth i. It's enough sub for me and the smaller size makes it easier to place in my room or between the CLS and audio rack. I would also consider the JL Audio line of subs which are an excellent value.

Welcome back!

 

[Irishtom]

You might consider building a Tom Danley style tapped horn. You may find the subjective sense of speed of a horn sub blends better with stats than small direct radiators do.

Personally if I were doing a no-holds -barred stat I'd subwoof with either very large direct radiators, twin 18s or 4-15s, or a basshorn thus keeping cone excursion and distortion very low. My opinion.

 

[babydoc]

Subs for full-range ESLs

Hi everyone,

I'm just returning to this group after being "gone" the last 2 years busy w/ other "stuff" audio and not. I have been redoing cabling the last 2-3 years (thank you Chris Sommovigo!) and am now creating a musical system again. I had previously considered selling my CLS z's for something else (?) and now that things are becoming musical again, I'm seriously considering keeping. If I do keep, I wish to finally bring in the bottom octave to degree room will allow w/ a pair of subs, operating at speaker level off my amp. I am considering either a pair of Descent I's or the Aerial SW12's. My room is 13.5 X 28 X 8. The CLS' are dialed in to room exactly and I have worked several years to maximize room correction/tuning very well. Except for TT (Well Temp Ref.), all equipment is Forsell.

If I do this, I would like to corner load at front corners to degree possible.

Any experienced suggestions would be helpful in this process.

Thanks,

Kbuss

I have gone the route of Descent-i's (2) in the front and a pair of first generation Descents (2) in the rear. All are corner-placed due to room configuration.You might consider this over-kill but a white paper on sub placement a few years ago suggested this configuration to minimize bass nodes in a basic rectangular room. In your situation, you have excellent speakers that are limited in bass-response by design. Your room is long but narrow and I assume you have your speakers in front of the short wall. I would suggest you start out with two subs behind your speakers in front. You can pick up Descents (no longer made) in the used or trade-in market for a good price and I think you would be very happy with them. While the "i" models are an incremental improvement, I would doubt that, in most listening, you would really hear much of a difference.

 

[Kbuss]

Subs for CLS

Thanks for the responses everyone.

I had not considered the JL's... had missed my radar, tho I remember reading about the big one in TAS sometime back. Do the JL's have speaker level inputs? I would much prefer feeding subs directly off my amp so all drivers are on the same sonic page. I also have a friend who can build me a network to adapt to line level only, if need be. Just more work.

What are the problems of (partial) corner loading pairs? I have enough real estate where I cound bring them out as much as 3 + feet from corners. I would rather not have them on same plane as CLS' if at all possible. This would block access to front 3rd of room, and I don't like the busy look.

Thanks,

Kbuss

 

[C.A.P]

Sub placement with CLS is not as bad as with a cone. Try one in front between the speakers and one directly behind you if room permits. Just try it and see. Its not the norm but Harmon International did research with as many as 20 subs and they said 2 is best in this configuration. I have tried it and it was the best stereo blend.

On that not I do not use subs with my CLS but rather room treatments and placement to get to 40 hz. I have 3 walls that are concrete 1/3 the way up and I get great bass reinforcement.