Stage information

[JonFo]

Thanks Frank.

Is it me or is that Tweeter behind the ESL?

Also, interesting that the ESL is concave like the Cinema vs convex like the Theater. I'd be interested in hearing the reasoning for going with concave.

 

[Robin]

Cool... Very Cool....

Frank,

I second that, Thank you very much for posting a photo of the new Stage. I've been wondering what it looked like.

Jon,

I think that tweeter is mounted in front of the ESL transducer...., otherise it would have to be firing backwards, up or down and I don't think that is the case.

Unfortuately, I think the ESL transducer is slightly concave (like the Cinema i), which if true is not a good thing IMHO, as I like a wider sound stage... I would have much preferred a slightly convex ESL transducer (like the Theater i). Oh well, I can't have everything... At least the Stage has the Xstat pannel, which makes up for the slight concave shape. I like it. I also like the woofers on the ends and the center tweeter for the highs. Having said all that, I just love my Theater i and plan to keep it for a good long time.

 

[Mrjb]

Uups, where is the picture ? Next try :

that is a better pic than I have. I have the one that ML realesed with the pricing and specs but it is not as hi rez as that.

 

[Reverb2009]

Frank,

I second that, Thank you very much for posting a photo of the new Stage. I've been wondering what it looked like.

Jon,

I think that tweeter is mounted in front of the ESL transducer...., otherise it would have to be firing backwards, up or down and I don't think that is the case.

Unfortuately, I think the ESL transducer is slightly concave (like the Cinema i), which if true is not a good thing IMHO, as I like a wider sound stage... I would have much preferred a slightly convex ESL transducer (like the Theater i). Oh well, I can't have everything... At least the Stage has the Xstat pannel, which makes up for the slight concave shape. I like it. I also like the woofers on the ends and the center tweeter for the highs. Having said all that, I just love my Theater i and plan to keep it for a good long time.

The tweeter is mounted behind the ESL, ML said they were going to do this to give the stage a cleaner look. There is an opening in the Mylar for the sound of the tweeter to escape.

Yes, the ESL is concaved like the cinema was. I did not like the idea of going back to the cinemas design, but I think ML did this to try and get rid of the dead spot. Curving the panel helps make the sound fan out, and limits an electrostatic speakers beaming effect. But curving the panel can create a dead spot in the middle of the panel. My theory is ML decided to go back to the cinemas design because the concaved panel means the sound has to Chris cross over, hopefully limiting the dead spot.

 

[attyonline]

How is the tweeter expected to project sound from behind the mylar panel? That sounds like a recipe for disaster.

 

[Reverb2009]

How is the tweeter expected to project sound from behind the mylar panel? That sounds like a recipe for disaster.

It is my understanding that there is a hole in the mylar for the tweeter.

 

[Robin]

Large Hole in ML Mylar ESL Transducers...?

It is my understanding that there is a hole in the mylar for the tweeter.

Joe,

It just seems kinda odd it have a tweeter sized hole in the center of the mylar. Oh well, ML must have tested and re-tested the Stage for any ESL transducer performance problems, I'm sure the Stage sounds fantastic as per ML's usual. I only hope it's not a trend to start mounting tweeters behind the mylar (with large holes in the mylar) in future ML speaker models...

 

[Reverb2009]

Joe,

It just seems kinda odd it have a tweeter sized hole in the center of the mylar. Oh well, ML must have tested and re-tested the Stage for any ESL transducer performance problems, I'm sure the Stage sounds fantastic as per ML's usual. I only hope it's not a trend to start mounting tweeters behind the mylar (with large holes in the mylar) in future ML speaker models...

Didn’t the Logos have a woofer and tweeter behind the panel?

 

[Robin]

"Logos"

Joe,

Yes, I suppose so... I guess it will just take me some time to get used to this new Stage design... I do like the Stage. I guess it will grow on me over time. I think I would like it better if I could just hear one, which always sells me in the end. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in the market for a center. I still love my Theater i.

 

[Reverb2009]

Joe,

Yes, I suppose so... I guess it will just take me some time to get used to this new Stage design... I do like the Stage. I guess it will grow on me over time. I think I would like it better if I could just hear one, which always sells me in the end. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in the market for a center. I still love my Theater i.

I don’t see it performing as well as the Theater, but we will see.

I hear the stages 6 ½” bass drivers are aluminum; I bet I can get them to fit in the theater center channel. He, He

 

[Robin]

Theater Up-Grade...

I don’t see it performing as well as the Theater, but we will see.

I hear the stages 6 ½” bass drivers are aluminum; I bet I can get them to fit in the theater center channel. He, He

Joe,

I wonder.... The Theater sure would sound even better with 6 1/2" aluminum drivers, I agree.

 

[Reverb2009]

Joe,

I wonder.... The Theater sure would sound even better with 6 1/2" aluminum drivers, I agree.

If this center channel can not out perform the theater center channel, I will wait to hear from some of our ML Club dealer friends, and if there is not a better center channel comming then the stage center channel, O' the plains I have in store for my theater center.

 

[JonFo]

Didn’t the Logos have a woofer and tweeter behind the panel?

Well, since I just had a Logos up until two weeks ago....

The Logos is made up of two ESL panels flanking a single tweeter, which is mounted behind a standard perforated stator panel (minus the Mylar of course). Behind it was a 6.5" dynamic woofer.

So it too had a dead spot for the ESL elements. That’s why the cinema and theater use a single Concave or convex ESL element across the middle of the unit.

Now the Stage pokes holes in the ESL (not a big deal really) to get the combo to work.

Frankly, I'm so glad I went my own way on the center channel thing.

Two 6.5" drivers and not even a square foot of ESL panel in the Stage. OK if you don't have the space, but my center has four square feet of ESL and six, count 'em six 6.8 drivers in a proper line-array. Bi-amped and actively crossed over to boot. See the build thread later this weekend for updates on some interesting tuning facts

As I sit here listening to some more IQ (allegedly doing that raises one's own ), the balance across the front is amazing, simply amazing. A good center is a must.

I hope the Stage is satisfactory to those who get one. I'm sure it will be, as ML does excellent design work.

 

[Reverb2009]

So it too had a dead spot for the ESL elements. That’s why the cinema and theater use a single Concave or convex ESL element across the middle of the unit.

Ture, but dont forget that both the theater and cinema centers have tweeter pods running down the middle of there pannels.

Two 6.5" drivers and not even a square foot of ESL panel in the Stage. OK if you don't have the space, but my center has four square feet of ESL and six, count 'em six 6.8 drivers in a proper line-array. Bi-amped and actively crossed over to boot. See the build thread later this weekend for updates on some interesting tuning facts

As I sit here listening to some more IQ (allegedly doing that raises one's own ), the balance across the front is amazing, simply amazing. A good center is a must.

I hope the Stage is satisfactory to those who get one. I'm sure it will be, as ML does excellent design work.

Your center channel idea is interesting, but I wonder if the skinny vertical panel images well enough for more then one person to be in the sweet spot? The curved horizontal panel seams like the better idea, you should be able to have a front row people in the sweet spot as apposed to one or two form your vertical panel.

Don’t take that as criticism, you did a fine job building your center channel.

 

[Robin]

Home Made ESL Center?

Jon,

So your ESL center is working out well for you? That is great! I look forward to seeing your posted up-dates.

I agree ML does a fantastic job with all of their line of hybrid speakers.

 

[JonFo]

Ture, but dont forget that both the theater and cinema centers have tweeter pods running down the middle of there pannels..

Yep, you're right, which is why the concave design of the Cinema and the Stage is better if you have something in front (or in) the ESL.

From that standpoint, the Logos and the theater are weaker.

Your center channel idea is interesting, but I wonder if the skinny vertical panel images well enough for more then one person to be in the sweet spot? The curved horizontal panel seams like the better idea, you should be able to have a front row people in the sweet spot as apposed to one or two form your vertical panel.

Don’t take that as criticism, you did a fine job building your center channel.

That’s a good question and one I considered during design.
I’m fortunate to have been able to design my home theater room around my Martin Logan speakers, and therefore have a long (26’ long x 16’W x 10’ H) room so that the speakers could sit well out from the walls and yet still not have the listener right up against them.
In my case, the ‘prime’ listening row is 16’ from the fronts, which means that any regular ESL with its 30 degree curve will cover that row and them some.
The front row, which is at 11’ is a little more constrained, but the two primary positions for that row are well covered.

The greater curvature of the ML centers does mean a larger sweet spot in other rooms or with closer seating positions.

Like I say, I designed for my ‘unreal’ world

 

[JonFo]

Jon,

So your ESL center is working out well for you? That is great! I look forward to seeing your posted up-dates.

I agree ML does a fantastic job with all of their line of hybrid speakers.

Robin,

Yes, I'm kicking back this morning after all the measuring and tuning yesterday.
I’m extremely happy. This is the best I’ve ever heard out of the rig and it was not bad before.
I’m convinced (and the measurements bear me out) that the new center is head and shoulders above anything commercial I could get.
But as I mention in the thread, the effort is equally high.

Time to listen and enjoy the fruits of my labor. After all, it’s about listening to music.

The build thread is chock full of new info and pics.

 

[Robin]

Jon's Wonderful Center Channel Speaker...

Robin,

Yes, I'm kicking back this morning after all the measuring and tuning yesterday.
I’m extremely happy. This is the best I’ve ever heard out of the rig and it was not bad before.
I’m convinced (and the measurements bear me out) that the new center is head and shoulders above anything commercial I could get.
But as I mention in the thread, the effort is equally high.

Time to listen and enjoy the fruits of my labor. After all, it’s about listening to music.

The build thread is chock full of new info and pics.

Jon,

Your center goes to show, that bigger is better especially when it comes to the center channel speaker and HT. I just love your new center channel speaker. I checked out your 'Build Thread', the center you fabricated is really wonderful. I don't suppose you will be accepting orders from all your pals here at the ML Club....

It must give you some satisfaction knowing that all the hard work proved to be worth all of your creative research, design and actually putting it all together in a professional looking finished excellent quality product. Let me just say it, now I want one...

Thank you for sharing all of your behind the scenes work with us as well as all of the great photos too...

A truly beautiful center channel Jon.

 

[garmtz]

Didn’t the Logos have a woofer and tweeter behind the panel?

No, the Logos had two separate panels, with a tweeter between them.

 

[Reverb2009]

No? Don’t you mean Yes?
The Logos has a 1" tweeter and 6 1/2" woofer behind the ESL panel.



You’re the 2nd person to answer the question but I don’t think under stands why I asked it, so let me clarify.



Robin asked

I only hope it's not a trend to start mounting tweeters behind the mylar (with large holes in the mylar) in future ML speaker models.

I asked the question

Didn’t the Logos have a woofer and tweeter behind the panel?

To make the point that the Stage is not Martin Logan’s first attempt at putting the tweeter behind the panel.


Robins replay

Yes, I suppose so... I guess it will just take me some time to get used to this new Stage design...

I think I learned a valuable lesson, don’t try to make a point on a message board by asking a question.